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New Abortion Laws Too Extreme For Most Americans

WCH said:
So no actual real life women opinions? I think you would be surprised what they really think when you get past the politics.
As I said before, abortion is now a political tool susceptible to the same rhetoric and distortion of any other issue.
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Yes..real life women opinions. One gets that from doing the basics, like actually listening to what women convey via their written and spoken words.
 
WCH said:
Everything in life that's not easy IS an inconvenience. As a matter of fact, life is full of them.

Being personally responsible goes a long way in keeping those inconveniences to a minimum. But, it ain't easy....you have to work for it.
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Women in the US are being responsible. Two thirds are using tubal ligation procedures or birth control meds or devices consistently.

From a 2018 article:
The report found that the most common contraceptive methods women use are female sterilization at 18.6 percent and the pill at 12.6 percent followed by long-acting reversible contraceptives (LARCs), which includes implants and intrauterine devices (IUDs), at 10.3 percent,
...

Oh, and as for 35.1 percent of women who aren’t using contraception They’re not all just having unsafe sex. About half of them (17 percent of the respondents) hadn’t had sex in the past three months while the rest were either pregnant, postpartum or trying to conceive (7.5 percent), or, indeed, sexually active but not using protection (7.9 percent).
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Almost Two-Thirds of Women in the U.S. Use Some Form of Birth Control | SELF




If my math is correct that is 40.3 percent of women are using highly effective methods of BC in a very responsible manner and over 66 percent women are being responsible and using Birth control procedures, medication , or devices consistently.
 
WCH said:
Everything in life that's not easy IS an inconvenience. As a matter of fact, life is full of them.

Being personally responsible goes a long way in keeping those inconveniences to a minimum. But, it ain't easy....you have to work for it.
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I already pointed out (post 79), with facts, that abortion can be a very responsible option...and you completely ignored it. I guess it's not very "convenient" in the face of your argument.

And if you consider everything in your life a 'convenience', that's up to you but most of us dont hold our lives, our health, our families, our responsibilities and commitments, our jobs, so cheaply.

Lursa said:
It has been posted many times that most couples in America do use contraception. After all these millenia, with better contraception and medical care...do you really think that people are going to start having less sex? Yes or no? Is that a rational belief? Yes or no?

And then perhaps you can please explain why you condemn these normal, responsible American women for choosing a responsible option if an accident does occur? Please, explain?

Because:

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid you cant afford and expecting tax payers to take up that burden with public assistance.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid you arent emotionally prepared to have and may abuse or neglect.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid if you know you wont stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs, etc that will damage the unborn.

--There's nothing responsible about remaining pregnant and dropping out of high school or college or missing work and not fulfilling your potential in society.

--There's nothing responsible about remaining pregnant/having a child and not being able to fulfill your other commitments and obligations to family, dependents, employer, church, community, society.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid and giving it up for adoption when there are already over 100,000 kids in America waiting to be adopted. It means one less waiting will find a home.​
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Some unanswered questions in there for you, can you address them now?
 
WCH said:
I give you the term "we're pregnant" but, as I offered before, 85% are not wed.
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What does the latter part of your sentence have to do w/ my comment?

The term "we're pregnant" is stupid. Only the woman is pregnant.
 
Lursa said:
I already pointed out (post 79), with facts, that abortion can be a very responsible option...and you completely ignored it. I guess it's not very "convenient" in the face of your argument.

And if you consider everything in your life a 'convenience', that's up to you but most of us dont hold our lives, our health, our families, our responsibilities and commitments, our jobs, so cheaply.



Some unanswered questions in there for you, can you address them now?
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Pardon, but I don't think killing an innocent is responsible. It's murder.

And I've heard all your **** before.
 
Scrabaholic said:
What does the latter part of your sentence have to do w/ my comment?

The term "we're pregnant" is stupid. Only the woman is pregnant.
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Yeah I know that's what you think. Thing is without a man, she wouldn't be pregnant and she wouldn't be comprehending killing anything.
 
WCH said:
Pardon, but I don't think killing an innocent is responsible. It's murder.

And I've heard all your **** before.
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Cool, then please explain this:

Ah, here's that useless 'innocence' again, that no one will explain why they value it. Care to do so please? Why do you value an attribute that is only emptiness, a vacuum? There's no ability to act, no intent.*It has no more 'innocence' than a flower or a couch, Why do you give credit to something for literally 'nothing?​

More importantly, why do you value that emptiness, that vacuum, more than the entirety of a woman's life? More than her health and ability to provide for her dependents? More than her ability to fulfill her obligations and commitments to her employer, her community, to society?

Can you even explain what she is 'guilty' of? (Since apparently she's not 'innocent' according to you). We've already established that most couples are using contraception responsibly. And not everyone considers the wonderful gift of sex between consenting adults as wrong.

So...please answer these questions that will actually (if you do so) not allow you to hide behind overly simplistic slogans claiming the unborn are 'innocent' and women who have abortions are 'irresponsible'. Come on...answer the tough questions. It's not a simple issue, even tho you constantly take refuge behind simplistic claims.

(Cue: for our more challenged readers: no I'm not comparing the unborn to flowers and couches...I'm comparing the emptiness and inability of all those to actually be 'innocent' in any way. What can I say, there's always a few posters that do. :shrug:)
 
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WCH said:
Pardon, but I don't think killing an innocent is responsible. It's murder.

And I've heard all your **** before.
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And I've seen all yours. So then it's even more perplexing when you continually post false info...seemingly intentionally lying each time. A grave sin in and of itself.

Murder is illegal. Abortion is not. Not even...yet...in the states that recently tried to make it so. The courts keep blocking them because they are unConstitutional.

--Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

FromMurder | Definition of Murder by Merriam-Webster

--Murder: the killing of another human beingunder conditions specifically covered in law.In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime,\ as robbery or arson (first-degree murder),and murder by*intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degreemurder).

FromMurder | Definition of Murder at Dictionary.com


--Murder:is the deliberate and illegal killing of a person.

From Collins English Dictionary | Page Not Found (404)

--Murder: the crime of intentionally killing a person

FromMURDER | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary​
 
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WCH said:
Yeah I know that's what you think. Thing is without a man, she wouldn't be pregnant and she wouldn't be comprehending killing anything.
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The man's body is not put at risk by pregnancy. A five second squirt does not entitle him to say "we're pregnant" or to force her to gestate against her will.
 
snakestretcher said:
I think you'll find that women, irrespective of their political leaning, want the right to do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies without interference from bible-thumping christian nutcases. This isn't a left-right issue; it's an issue between normal people and brain-dead evangelists. One day those throwbacks might get dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but I'm not overly optimistic.
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I am: (1) a woman (2) not a Christian (no religion) (3) opposed to abortion for almost any reason you can name (4) I admit, not happy in the 21st century
 
LadyMoonlight said:
I am: (1) a woman (2) not a Christian (no religion) (3) opposed to abortion for almost any reason you can name (4) I admit, not happy in the 21st century
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I am : (1) a woman (2) a Christian ( Protestant) (3) Pro Choice ( I support a pregnant woman whether she chooses to continue her pregnancy or chooses an abortion within the parameters of Roe) (4) I admit I am not happy with pro life people who are trying to pass Unconstitutional laws to take away our Constitutional rights of our Right to Privacy, Bodily autonomy , and Religious Liberty.
 
Lursa said:
Cool, then please explain this:

Ah, here's that useless 'innocence' again, that no one will explain why they value it. Care to do so please? Why do you value an attribute that is only emptiness, a vacuum? There's no ability to act, no intent.*It has no more 'innocence' than a flower or a couch, Why do you give credit to something for literally 'nothing?​

More importantly, why do you value that emptiness, that vacuum, more than the entirety of a woman's life? More than her health and ability to provide for her dependents? More than her ability to fulfill her obligations and commitments to her employer, her community, to society?

Can you even explain what she is 'guilty' of? (Since apparently she's not 'innocent' according to you). We've already established that most couples are using contraception responsibly. And not everyone considers the wonderful gift of sex between consenting adults as wrong.

So...please answer these questions that will actually (if you do so) not allow you to hide behind overly simplistic slogans claiming the unborn are 'innocent' and women who have abortions are 'irresponsible'. Come on...answer the tough questions. It's not a simple issue, even tho you constantly take refuge behind simplistic claims.

(Cue: for our more challenged readers: no I'm not comparing the unborn to flowers and couches...I'm comparing the emptiness and inability of all those to actually be 'innocent' in any way. What can I say, there's always a few posters that do. :shrug:)
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The unborn are innocent because they are helpless....only relying on their mother for their safety. The women who got pregnant [with exception] did so willingly with little regard for the consequences of abortion.
 
Scrabaholic said:
The man's body is not put at risk by pregnancy. A five second squirt does not entitle him to say "we're pregnant" or to force her to gestate against her will.
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As Judge Judy would say, "you picked him" and voluntarily laid down with him.

You just don't want the guilt of hurting multiple individuals.
 
WCH said:
As Judge Judy would say, "you picked him" and voluntarily laid down with him.

You just don't want the guilt of hurting multiple individuals.
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And then voluntarily got the abortion
 
WCH said:
That's cute. Shows your side's total disregard for human life and selfishness.
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You want abortions illegal? Move to Vatican city.


Face it.....you would never live in any of the countries where it is currently illegal.


Backwater hellholes
 
vegas giants said:
You want abortions illegal? Move to Vatican city.


Face it.....you would never live in any of the countries where it is currently illegal.


Backwater hellholes
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I don't want it illegal except when it's used as a backstop for irresponsibility.
 
WCH said:
I don't want it illegal except when it's used as a backstop for irresponsibility.
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Name a country that has a policy you want here.


And wait.....you are ok with killing some innocent babies??????
 
WCH said:
The unborn are innocent because they are helpless....only relying on their mother for their safety. The women who got pregnant [with exception] did so willingly with little regard for the consequences of abortion.
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That's not innocence, that is helplessness.

And if you removed the option for women to have elective abortions, then you are using force to overcome their will...making them helpless. Unable to save their own lives or health or futures.

Huh...exactly like the unborn. So...why do you still value the unborn over women? Sorry...you are using judgement and blame against women. Here's how it goes, thanks for reinforcing it:

Interestingly enough...I've discovered a pretty clear dividing line for "acceptable" for pro-life people. It's viewed the same very very frequently.

If it's the woman's 'fault' she got pregnant (she enjoyed sex, her birth control failed, etc.) then she should not be allowed to have an abortion.

If it wasnt her fault (rape, severe medical issues, incest as a minor) then she should be allowed to have an abortion.

So what we can see here is that:

--obviously most pro-life people do not view the unborn as equal... If the unborn was truly equal, you could not terminate its life in cases of rape or incest or even the mother's life to some extent. (There are a few pro-life people that do believe you cannot terminate the unborn in these circumstances and at least they are consistent.)

-- most pro-life people care more about judging and punishing a woman than they care for that 'innocent life'. (yeah, considering it punishment because the unborn is frequently referred to as a 'consequence')

So IMO the dividing line re: abortion for pro-life supporters has nothing to do with the unborn, it's all about the woman and how they judge her culpability in the pregnancy.​

Face the truth, it's all about how you value women...or dont. You make a personal choice to accord the unborn a respect and (imaginary) rights that you wouuld withhold from women...women that 'behave' in ways you dont approve of. Yet it's the exact same thing...you'd see women deprived of rights and health and self-determination in order to give those same things to the unborn.

Me? I value the unborn, but I value all born people more.
 
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WCH said:
As Judge Judy would say, "you picked him" and voluntarily laid down with him.
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What does this have to do w/ my post that you are responding to? BTW, I don't give a fat rat's behind what that attention seeking Judy says.


You just don't want the guilt of hurting multiple individuals.
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What???
 
Scrabaholic said:
What does this have to do w/ my post that you are responding to? BTW, I don't give a fat rat's behind what that attention seeking Judy says.




What???
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You have no respect for the unborn nor the male who helped create it. You hate them to justify your ideology.
 
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