Socialized medicine at its finest, forced abortion in the UK

Lursa said:

The slaves were able to fully exercise their rights upon equality, they were finally recognized as equal persons under the law. The unborn cannot exercise a single right, not one.

Before birth, the unborn has no rights that can be separated from the mother (physically, legally, ethically, practically). It's a dependency that truly demonstrates that it is not equal.

They do not have a single right that they can exercise independently.​

Yet when born, they are equal and capable of beginning to exercise their rights. Equality is a legal status, based on legal criteria. That's why abortion is best left to secular law.

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Babies, whether born or unborn are not capable of exercising their rights independently, nor are toddlers, nor are people with mental disabilities. The ability to independently exercise rights or not, does not create a moral right to kill

Manc Skipper said:

Killing babies is murder. Abortion is not, since no babies are involved.

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Ummm yes there is, there would be no neee for abortion if there was no baby involved

EMNofSeattle said:

The fact that it kills babies is the only negative effect required.

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And what effect does that have on society? None. Unless you can explain?

EMNofSeattle said:

So the law of the ancient Jews decided that the financial compensation for a baby was less then an adult, note it still presupposes killing the baby is a wrong

Are you advocating a world where murder is acceptable based on what the probable payout in a wrongful death action is? Well actually yes you do because you people have no limits on your ideology

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Hey, it was written as the Lord's Word in the Bible. I didnt invent it.

And you are intentionally not engaging in the actual argument...which was that the Bible shows that God values women more than the unborn.

And that's ok if it goes unrefuted. Because it is the truth.

EMNofSeattle said:

Babies, whether born or unborn are not capable of exercising their rights independently, nor are toddlers, nor are people with mental disabilities. The ability to independently exercise rights or not, does not create a moral right to kill

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Babies and toddlers do so. They exercise their right to life, to liberty, to bodily sovereignty, to guide their own self-determination, to freedom of expression. They start immediately upon birth and expand that ability as they grow and they are not dependent on anyone else in order to do so.

And I never said the ability to independently exercise rights created a moral right to kill...please read better and/or argue more honestly. I wrote that the fact that the unborn have no rights that they can exercise independently, with every single thing intertwined with a dependency on the woman, proves that they are not equal to a person. They are not equal and our govt rightly does not recognize them as such nor recognize that they have any rights.

Before birth, the unborn has no rights that can be separated from the mother (physically, legally, ethically, practically). It's a dependency that truly demonstrates that it is not equal.

They do not have a single right that they can exercise independently.

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Lursa said:

And what effect does that have on society? None. Unless you can explain?

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I simply reject the notion that killing “undesirables” is ever a benefit for society, whatever pseudo intellectual argument you have notwithstanding:

You’ve already just said you won’t accept any answer I give anyway. Nor will I undercut my moral argument by talking dollars and cents you like want to bait me into doing.

EMNofSeattle said:

I simply reject the notion that killing “undesirables” is ever a benefit for society, whatever pseudo intellectual argument you have notwithstanding:

You’ve already just said you won’t accept any answer I give anyway. Nor will I undercut my moral argument by talking dollars and cents you like want to bait me into doing.

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Who said that the unborn are undesirables? What's with the labels? Each woman makes the best decision for her life and her family...kids, elderly, disabled, etc. And for her commitments and obligations in life, like employer, community, society.

Again, you try to make this some kind of personal vendetta...maybe for you against women, but not for pro-choice people. Otherwise we would all be pro-abortion...which is a rather rare and disturbed subset IMO. Thankfully very small in number.

And I believe you are lying. Where did I write I wouldnt accept your answer? I asked you twice for that answer: please list any negative effects of abortion on society. The loss of the unborn was your answer. How exactly does that negatively affect society? (There is a whole list of positive effects, btw)