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Illinois Governor Signs Bill Scrapping Third-Trimester Abortion Restrictions

Lursa said:
So all the people that call their cars 'baby,' their boats 'baby,' when they cheer a Saturn rocket carrying the shuttle off the launch pad, shouting, go baby go!, all the people that call their pets 'baby,' yada yada yada....nearly everyone in the US is dehumanizing the unborn?!

Oh the horror! :lol:
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Exactly, the word baby is a term of endearment not a description of humanization.
 
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Fishking said:
Look way above your head...that's the point that went flying by. Using the word fetus doesn't make it less of a baby, no matter how much you think it does.
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Again, this is a legal discussion based on laws. Using the correct words are important.

ANd again...we have had an "abortion" doctor that killed babies. And was rightfully convicted for his crimes. So when you say killing babies ...I think Gosnell. So the distinction in a legal discussion (and we are in a thread speaking about law) seems appropriate. Using endearing terms when speaking of legal matters is confusing.

Hell, think to the post birth abortion nonsense. Look at all the difficulty posters had by refusing to be correct. The reason was obvious. They refused to use correct terminology because the "post birth abortion" thing was a lie.

Correct terminology helps us understand each other, especially in legally based issues.
 
minnie616 said:
Exactly, the word baby is a term of endearment not a description of humanization.
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Exactly.

The funny thing is that if they looked a little closer, many if not most pro-choicers are individually against abortion. If the two sides could come together they would realize that the way to decrease abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancy or to turn unwanted pregnancy into a wanted one (very difficult as it requires making a woman feel like she is housing secure and medically safe.

I find the wordplay and deception counter productive.

In this thread about third trimester abortions...I find little concrete understanding that third trimester abortions are normally for catastrophic issues with the fetus or medical issues with the mother. I believe it is probably that most third trimester abortions were from wanted pregnancies.

When this discussion came up earlier.....and it was discussed other options for a fetus with catastrophic issues...I brought up the possibility of perinatal palliative care.

FAQs | Perinatal hospice and palliative care

I was told by several that this was killing the baby. (the baby and not the fetus). Someone made light of it a spoke about perinatal hospice being akin to throwing it in the trash amoung other things.

This had come up quite a bit during the post birth abortion crap.
 
minnie616 said:
Exactly, the word baby is a term of endearment not a description of humanization.
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You cant have it both ways...either you have a discussion based on factual terms...or you recognize that the use of a term colloquially is one of endearment and emotional response. But in neither case is it dehumanizing.
 
Lursa said:
So all the people that call their cars 'baby,' their boats 'baby,' when they cheer a Saturn rocket carrying the shuttle off the launch pad, shouting, go baby go!, all the people that call their pets 'baby,' yada yada yada....nearly everyone in the US is dehumanizing the unborn?!

Oh the horror! :lol:
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Oh yes...continue to show how monstrous your ideology is by making light of killing innocents.
 
Fishking said:
Oh yes...continue to show how monstrous your ideology is by making light of killing innocents.
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Continue telling us why women have one less right than a corpse.
 
Fishking said:
Oh yes...continue to show how monstrous your ideology is by making light of killing innocents.
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Ah! Perhaps you can answer this then? I'll just recycle it here for you...no one ever seems to answer it, but perhaps you will?

Why do you value an attribute that is only emptiness? There's no ability to act, no intent. It's the same 'innocence' of a flower or a couch...a vacuum, nothing. Why do you give credit to something for literally 'nothing?' Why do you value that?​

And certainly, why do you value it more than women?

Note: often we do see the self-righteous outrage of those with poor reading comprehension; they respond with "you just compared the unborn to flowers and couches!" :roll: Er, no.
 
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Fishking said:
Oh yes...continue to show how monstrous your ideology is by making light of killing innocents.
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Response redux: your emotional involvement continues to rear its head with your continued ventures into hyperbole. No response to facts or even the very clear point that several of us made: there's no dehumanization on our parts or society's.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Where is she doing that?
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I do not get why they persist in making crap up.

Hell, another poster actually accused me of having an abortion . He showed me a picture of what my son would have looked like had a not aborted him. (my son is 25 and I suffered multiple life endangering complications and surgery to bring him into this world). If you are going to attack someone personally, at least know the hell what you are talking about and tell the truth.

Some get so emotional, they forget about facts.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Where is she doing that?
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It's hardly "monstrous" when a Supreme Court bench (of mostly conservative judges) voted to support it 7-2 :roll:

Not to mention that the majority of Americans support elective abortions. Good lord the hyperbole we see posted here sometimes!
 
year2late said:
I do not get why they persist in making crap up.

Hell, another poster actually accused me of having an abortion . He showed me a picture of what my son would have looked like had a not aborted him. (my son is 25 and I suffered multiple life endangering complications and surgery to bring him into this world). If you are going to attack someone personally, at least know the hell what you are talking about and tell the truth.

Some get so emotional, they forget about facts.
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They don't forget the facts.. they IGNORE the facts.

And here is a kicker... you would be AMAZED.. at the hypocrisy that occurs with these anti abortion folks. Its amazing to me the number of these anti abortion folks.. THAT HAVE ABORTIONS.

They talk such a game.. but when its THEIR daughter.. or themselves.. there they are.. in the office.. getting mifepristone and misoprostol. (collectively called the "abortion pill").

And if people knew that they had been pregnant. They tell them that "I miscarried".

I once say a woman I KNOW.. had taken the abortion pill... outside a planned parenthood clinic.. protesting abortion!..
 
jaeger19 said:
They don't forget the facts.. they IGNORE the facts.

And here is a kicker... you would be AMAZED.. at the hypocrisy that occurs with these anti abortion folks. Its amazing to me the number of these anti abortion folks.. THAT HAVE ABORTIONS.

They talk such a game.. but when its THEIR daughter.. or themselves.. there they are.. in the office.. getting mifepristone and misoprostol. (collectively called the "abortion pill").

And if people knew that they had been pregnant. They tell them that "I miscarried".

I once say a woman I KNOW.. had taken the abortion pill... outside a planned parenthood clinic.. protesting abortion!..
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A coworker told me if it ever became known that he daughter was pregnant out of wedlock, she would be disowned. I told her "but that would be your grandchild". That being said, she was strongly antiabortion. She had no harsh words for her son and he was known to be quite the player. He got winks and nods from his parents "boys will be boys".
She said if her daughter ever came to her pregnant, she better have a ring on her finger.

We have already have reports of prolife lawmakers pushing their mistresses into abortion.

The hypocrisy is astounding.
 
Lursa said:
Ah! Perhaps you can answer this then? I'll just recycle it here for you...no one ever seems to answer it, but perhaps you will?

Why do you value an attribute that is only emptiness? There's no ability to act, no intent. It's the same 'innocence' of a flower or a couch...a vacuum, nothing. Why do you give credit to something for literally 'nothing?' Why do you value that?​

And certainly, why do you value it more than women?

Note: often we do see the self-righteous outrage of those with poor reading comprehension; they respond with "you just compared the unborn to flowers and couches!" :roll: Er, no.
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I don't believe I've heard the concept of innocence conceptualized so ridiculously and inaccurately.
 
Fishking said:
I don't believe I've heard the concept of innocence conceptualized so ridiculously and inaccurately.
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Thank you. That was my point. The true concept of innocence cannot be applied to the unborn which cannot act nor even form intent.
 
Lursa said:
Response redux: your emotional involvement continues to rear its head with your continued ventures into hyperbole. No response to facts or even the very clear point that several of us made: there's no dehumanization on our parts or society's.
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It's not hyperbole but completely reasonable to have such a response to the purposeful killing of innocents. But I guess you had no problem with ISIS going on their killing rampages, eh?
 
Lursa said:
Thank you. That was my point. The true concept of innocence cannot be applied to the unborn which cannot act nor even form intent.
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Rofl...you're digging yourself deeper into a hole of incorrect understanding of concepts.
 
Fishking said:
It's not hyperbole but completely reasonable to have such a response to the purposeful killing of innocents. But I guess you had no problem with ISIS going on their killing rampages, eh?
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Of course it was:

Lursa said:
It's hardly "monstrous" when a Supreme Court bench (of mostly conservative judges) voted to support it 7-2 :roll:

Not to mention that the majority of Americans support elective abortions. Good lord the hyperbole we see posted here sometimes!
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And the beat goes on! With your silly comparison to Isis. I guess our higher courts are all Isis leaders? :roll:
 
Fishking said:
Rofl...you're digging yourself deeper into a hole of incorrect understanding of concepts.
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Of course I'm not. The unborn arent capable of guilt or innocence. If you can call them 'innocent,' then someone could also call them 'guilty' or 'evil.' All are completely meaningless in something that cannot act or even form intent.

The question was...why do you value that 'innocence' of nothing, a vacuum? Why do you value something that 'in reality,' is meaningless?
 
Lursa said:
Of course it was:

And the beat goes on! With your silly comparison to Isis. I guess our higher courts are all Isis leaders? :roll:
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You're right...ISIS hasn't killed nearly so many. My bad.
 
Lursa said:
Of course I'm not. The unborn arent capable of guilt or innocence. If you can call them 'innocent,' then someone could also call them 'guilty' or 'evil.' All are completely meaningless in something that cannot act or even form intent.

The question was...why do you value that 'innocence' of nothing, a vacuum? Why do you value something that 'in reality,' is meaningless?
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You really are struggling with the definition of innocent and how it's applied, aren't you. This is precious.
 
Fishking said:
They don't. Any other dumb comments?
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Of course they do. Nobody can use your organs after you die unless you give permission prior to croaking. Even if that's necessary to keep a person alive.

So by your standards, women have less rights than a cadaver.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Of course they do. Nobody can use your organs after you die unless you give permission prior to croaking. Even if that's necessary to keep a person alive.

So by your standards, women have less rights than a cadaver.
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Very true.

Well said.

Bodily autonomy.
 
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