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Illinois Governor Signs Bill Scrapping Third-Trimester Abortion Restrictions

Phys251 said:
Assassinated in a literal act of terror.
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He was Assassinated while serving as an usher at his Lutheran Chuch.

Tiller was fatally shot in the side of the head on May 31, 2009 by anti-abortion extremist[36][37][38] Scott Roeder during worship services at the Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, where he was serving as an usher and handing out church bulletins.[23][39][40]
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George Tiller - Wikipedia
 
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minnie616 said:
He was Assassinated during service at his Lutheran Chuch.
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I know. But it was an act of violence to achieve a political goal. That is by definition, terrorism. There were some anti-choice extremists who even openly admitted happiness that Tiller was assassinated.
 
nota bene said:
Yes. In his own church, where he was serving as an usher. Grotesque.
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A Christian Church.

And he was an usher in his Christian Church and pro choice also.

Pro faith , Pro family , and Pro choice.

From:

5. Evangelical Lutheran Church

While falling short of demanding federal funding of abortion, the Evangelical Lutheran Church believes that "abortion prior to viability should not be prohibited by law or by lack of public funding."

The Lutheran Church also argues, however, that abortions after the point of fetal viability should be banned unless either the mother's or child's life is at stake, according to a report by Pew Research Center.
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Read More:

7 Christian Denominations with Most Liberal Stance on Abortion | Newsmax.com
 
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nota bene said:
One person out of many? :lamo All I can do when dealing with this level of illogic is just laugh.
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Oh, you gave more than just one example? Please direct me to the post where you mentioned numerous people doing what you claimed was happening, rather than just one person who a small percentage of the roughly 1% of all abortions.

Your example was extreme and your refusal to honestly admit it is quite telling, but not much of a surprise to me. Your refusal to do even basic math is rather humorous.

So you won't click on links and you won't do math. It must be hard to have all these rules to prevent admitting how wrong your post is. It seems to me it would be so much easier to just be honest, but I guess not everyone is into that whole "honesty" thing.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Oh, you gave more than just one example? Please direct me to the post where you mentioned numerous people doing what you claimed was happening, rather than just one person who a small percentage of the roughly 1% of all abortions.

Your example was extreme and your refusal to honestly admit it is quite telling, but not much of a surprise to me. Your refusal to do even basic math is rather humorous.

So you won't click on links and you won't do math. It must be hard to have all these rules to prevent admitting how wrong your post is. It seems to me it would be so much easier to just be honest, but I guess not everyone is into that whole "honesty" thing.
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Slyfox, we don't even have accurate abortion stats because states are not required to report them to the CDC (and although most do, some--California, for example--don't). There is even less information available for late-term abortions. If you can identify other clinics and physicians who performed late-term abortions, if you can provide better and more thorough information than I have, do so now...or stop making the ridiculous claim that I am offering an "extreme" example.

If there are other examples, produce them now, including legal documents, as I have done. All I have to go on is what happened in Kansas and what could happen in Illinois, and that is rubberstamping and "negligent" record-keeping. Poor record-keeping was what caused Dr. Tiller's "second" to lose her medical license. Thus, this example is relevant. And extensively documented.

Show me the examples that demonstrate that the example I've offered is "extreme."
 
minnie616 said:
A Christian Church.

And he was an usher in his Christian Church and pro choice also.

Pro faith , Pro family , and Pro choice.
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Always the proselytizing.
 
nota bene said:
Always the proselytizing.
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I’m not trying to convert anyone.

Just letting others know that pro choice Christians sincerely held beliefs are as important to us as pro life Christian or Catholic sincerely held beliefs are important to them.

Pro choice allows each pregnant woman to follow her sincerely held beliefs or her conscience.
 
nota bene said:
Slyfox, we don't even have accurate abortion stats because states are not required to report them to the CDC (and although most do, some--California, for example--don't). There is even less information available for late-term abortions. If you can identify other clinics and physicians who performed late-term abortions, if you can provide better and more thorough information than I have, do so now...or stop making the ridiculous claim that I am offering an "extreme" example.

If there are other examples, produce them now, including legal documents, as I have done. All I have to go on is what happened in Kansas and what could happen in Illinois, and that is rubberstamping and "negligent" record-keeping. Poor record-keeping was what caused Dr. Tiller's "second" to lose her medical license. Thus, this example is relevant. And extensively documented.

Show me the examples that demonstrate that the example I've offered is "extreme."
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You are forgetting that Illinois does not have a late term abortion clinic.

As my Romper article link reported there are only four doctors in the United States who perform late term abortions.

Several states already have no abortion restrictions.

The 3 clinics that perform abortions past 21 weeks are in Albuquerque,N.M., Maryland , and Oregon.
 
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prometeus said:
Just like conservatives to post ignorant drivel consistently.
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Actually... conservatives... real conservatives believe government should stay out of peoples personal lives... and thus real conservatives are pro choice.
 
jaeger19 said:
Actually... conservatives... real conservatives believe government should stay out of peoples personal lives... and thus real conservatives are pro choice.
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Tell the gop
 
nota bene said:
Slyfox, we don't even have accurate abortion stats because states are not required to report them to the CDC (and although most do, some--California, for example--don't). There is even less information available for late-term abortions. If you can identify other clinics and physicians who performed late-term abortions, if you can provide better and more thorough information than I have, do so now...or stop making the ridiculous claim that I am offering an "extreme" example.
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You ARE offering an extreme example because you are talking about ONE doctor performing abortions which are less than 1% of all abortions performed.

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore? Because it appears you have no idea what you're talking about. You mention ONE doctor and the situation which occurs less than 1% of the time. By every rational and logical standard you are providing an extreme example, since you're talking about a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

Please understand what you're talking about before you reply again.

If there are other examples, produce them now, including legal documents, as I have done.
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Why do I have to present examples which prove your case?

Seriously, what an utterly stupid argument. It is on YOU to prove that your example is the norm, not the extreme. You haven't even attempted to do that. Your example is the outlier, unless you have evidence it is not (which, of course, you don't because you are making a ridiculous argument).

All I have to go on is what happened in Kansas
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ONE DOCTOR IN KANSAS.

That is an extreme example. That's my point. You are talking about ONE doctor in Kansas. How do you not understand this?

and what could happen in Illinois, and that is rubberstamping and "negligent" record-keeping.
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Again, that is an extreme example. Providing ONE example against the millions of abortions which have been performed and then using that to make any kind of argument is utterly stupid.

Poor record-keeping was what caused Dr. Tiller's "second" to lose her medical license. Thus, this example is relevant. And extensively documented.
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No, it is not relevant. ONE DOCTOR against the thousands of others is not relevant in the least.

Seriously, why do you keep posting this stupid argument? Why do you refuse to do math? You do understand ratios, right? 1:1800 is your ratio. Your example is extreme.

Show me the examples that demonstrate that the example I've offered is "extreme."
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Every other doctor that DIDN'T do those things are the examples. So, you know, almost all of them. Almost every other doctor is my example. If you can only provide ONE example of this happening, then, by logic, EVERY OTHER DOCTOR IS THE EXAMPLE. A quick Wikipedia check says there were over nearly 1800 abortion providers in the United States in 2008, so that is 1792 abortion providers who DIDN'T do this thing and you have ONE who did.

Seriously, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Because your argument is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. Please do math before you reply next, I am so over reading such mind-numbing arguments.
jaeger19 said:
Actually... conservatives... real conservatives believe government should stay out of peoples personal lives... and thus real conservatives are pro choice.
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Amen. Well said.
 
There's going to be an underground railroad from states like Alabama to states like Illinois. Complete with forged documents to try to help people avoid prosecution if they go back to their punitive home state after getting an abortion.
 
Crystal said:
Democrats, the party of death.
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Republican policies lead to an increase in abortions. If you vote Republican, you are a murderer.
 
Amelia said:
There's going to be an underground railroad from states like Alabama to states like Illinois. Complete with forged documents to try to help people avoid prosecution if they go back to their punitive home state after getting an abortion.
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I am sure that will happen.

It’s already happening in Michigan.

A hotel owner just a 45 minute trip or so north of Detroit , Michigan in St.Clair County who is offering several nights free for women
Who are traveling from States that restrict abortions who are getting abortions in Mich.

From

A Michigan hotel is offering free accommodations for anyone traveling for an abortion

“Dear sisters that live in Alabama, Ohio, Georgia, Arkansas, Missouri, or any of the other states that follow with similar laws restricting access, We cannot do anything about the way you are being treated in your home-state," the post reads.

"But, if you can make it to Michigan, we will support you with several nights lodging, and transportation to and from your appointment," the post reads.

It was a bold stance for the mother of three to take in her largely conservative town that's home to fewer than 2,000 people. But O'Brien said she felt it was important.

"Women should have autonomy over their own bodies," she said. "If we do not have control over our own bodies, then this is not a free world."
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Read more:

Michigan hotel offers free accommodations for anyone traveling for an abortion - CNN
 
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Slyfox696 said:
You ARE offering an extreme example because you are talking about ONE doctor performing abortions which are less than 1% of all abortions performed.

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore? Because it appears you have no idea what you're talking about. You mention ONE doctor and the situation which occurs less than 1% of the time. By every rational and logical standard you are providing an extreme example, since you're talking about a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

Please understand what you're talking about before you reply again.

Why do I have to present examples which prove your case?

Seriously, what an utterly stupid argument. It is on YOU to prove that your example is the norm, not the extreme. You haven't even attempted to do that. Your example is the outlier, unless you have evidence it is not (which, of course, you don't because you are making a ridiculous argument).

ONE DOCTOR IN KANSAS.

That is an extreme example. That's my point. You are talking about ONE doctor in Kansas. How do you not understand this?

Again, that is an extreme example. Providing ONE example against the millions of abortions which have been performed and then using that to make any kind of argument is utterly stupid.

No, it is not relevant. ONE DOCTOR against the thousands of others is not relevant in the least.

Seriously, why do you keep posting this stupid argument? Why do you refuse to do math? You do understand ratios, right? 1:1800 is your ratio. Your example is extreme.

Every other doctor that DIDN'T do those things are the examples. So, you know, almost all of them. Almost every other doctor is my example. If you can only provide ONE example of this happening, then, by logic, EVERY OTHER DOCTOR IS THE EXAMPLE. A quick Wikipedia check says there were over nearly 1800 abortion providers in the United States in 2008, so that is 1792 abortion providers who DIDN'T do this thing and you have ONE who did.

Seriously, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Because your argument is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. Please do math before you reply next, I am so over reading such mind-numbing arguments.
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I'm sorry. Let me help you. The topic is Illinois scrapping third-trimester abortions. Not ordinary elective abortions performed during the first trimester or even the second, but THIRD-TRIMESTER abortion restrictions. I'm not the one who's confused here. Now, you can certainly make the argument that third-trimester abortions aren't common and that they are "extreme." But that's not the topic. See the thread title.
 
nota bene said:
I'm sorry. Let me help you. The topic is Illinois scrapping third-trimester abortions.
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Yes, and your argument against it is ONE doctor out of thousands who did not do something appropriately. Here were your exact words:

nota bene said:
I would like to think that nobody would want a viable fetus aborted at 25+ weeks because the mother isn't sleeping well for thinking about her situation or wants to barrel race or wants to play basketball and being pregnant is taking the fun out of it. And yet these are reasons that Dr. Tiller's rubber-stamp, Kristen (Ann K.) Neuhaus signed off on.
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You are clearly making the argument against the legislation in Illinois based upon the actions of one doctor. You condemned the legislation because of one doctor, citing reasons which could/would apply to any potential abortion decision, regardless of stage of development. You later transitioned your argument to this:
nota bene said:
All I have to go on is what happened in Kansas and what could happen in Illinois, and that is rubberstamping and "negligent" record-keeping. Poor record-keeping was what caused Dr. Tiller's "second" to lose her medical license.
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So, again, your argument against legislation in Illinois is potential "rubberstamping" and "negligent record-keeping". But, again, you have only presented evidence of ONE doctor to whom this description applies, when there are roughly 1800 abortion providers in the United States.

So your ONE example compared to 1800 other examples is the extreme, the outlier, the one least likely to predict anything. It does not show a pattern of any kind and it is not reflective of abortion providers as a whole. It's stupid.

Your example is extreme and your refusal to do simple math to understand why is absurd.

Not ordinary elective abortions performed during the first trimester or even the second, but THIRD-TRIMESTER abortion restrictions. I'm not the one who's confused here.
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So you're being dishonest? Because those are your only two options for continually making such ridiculous arguments which fly in the face of math and logic. Either you do not understand what you are saying or you are dishonestly saying it. Which is it?

Now, you can certainly make the argument that third-trimester abortions aren't common and that they are "extreme."
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Which they are as well. Roughly 1% of the time. So, as I said from the beginning, you are using an extreme example within an extreme subset of data.

It's a ridiculous argument you are making.

But that's not the topic.
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The topic also isn't rubberstamping or negligent record-keeping, but that is how you chose to address this legislation. You chose to provide one extreme example and used it to condemn any and all other doctors in the future in Illinois or anywhere else.

Your example was extreme, it was stupid and the fact you don't see it is a you problem.

See the thread title.
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I see it. Do you?
 
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Deuce said:
Republican policies lead to an increase in abortions. If you vote Republican, you are a murderer.
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Makes no sense at all! Democrats are the party of death.
 
Crystal said:
Makes no sense at all! Democrats are the party of death.
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Republicans....war...guns....decent healthcare for only those that can afford it......then there is the whole killing the planet thing....seems like violence and death is a calling card for them.
 
year2late said:
Republicans....war...guns....decent healthcare for only those that can afford it......then there is the whole killing the planet thing....seems like violence and death is a calling card for them.
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We can afford healthcare for all if we tax all. You in?
 
prometeus said:
Why? Did you think the tooth fairy brought it? Then again at the level you are posting...
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Better than the level liberals post in. Anytime someone disagrees with you you insult them.
 
You birds cannot simply state your case without adding insults.
 
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