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Abortion Is Against Science And Common Sense, Its Murder

Simply not true. It's Fox News FFS! Science is part and parcel of abortion as well as neonatal care. Science tells us that survival at that premature age is between 20 and 30% despite the best care possible. Sco=iece tells us that NO baby born before 20 weeks has ever lived. Science tells us that a Canadian baby held the earliest surviving premie record for something like 30 years despite massive advances in neonatal ICBU care. The only thing special about this child is her very low birth weight.
 
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DebateChallenge said:
Abortion is against science and its against common sense, its murder plain and simple. We need to ban it altogether, this article hits the nail right on the head.
Penny Nance: World'''s tiniest surviving preemie shows abortion isn’t in line with science or common sense | Fox News
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So a woman with maternal complications has a c-section. The baby is born without apparent genetic and/or other birth defect. The baby born had excellent neonatal intensive care and was able to survive it's early entry into the world.

How is this an abortion debate?

Was the fetus with genetic or other birth defect and abortion was contemplated? No.

A woman had an urgent c-section due to complications of pregnancy and the baby survived because of a high level of medical care.

Interesting this thread is about abortion and not insuring a high level of medical care to those born and throughout their life.

Perhaps if a woman felt certain that she and her baby could live safe secure and healthy she might not consider abortion.
 
maquiscat said:
Since murder is an I killing, and abortion is not illegal, by definition abortion is not murder.

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Sure its murder, its just legalized murder.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Sure its murder, its just legalized murder.
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Apologies, I missed where a word got cut off in my post.

Since murder is an illegal killing and abortion is not illegal, by definition abortion cannot be murder.

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He ain't heavy

DebateChallenge said:
Abortion is against science and its against common sense, its murder plain and simple. We need to ban it altogether, this article hits the nail right on the head.
Penny Nance: World'''s tiniest surviving preemie shows abortion isn’t in line with science or common sense | Fox News
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So, 1. How much has Saybie's care cost so far, from her mother's hospitalization to date? (& if Saybie has ongoing issues [likely], those costs are going to continue to pile up. Possibly, they'll get worse as they go - it's unexplored country, because Saybie weighed so little @ birth.)

2. What is the total budget for ObGyn services (NICU, ventilators, 24-hour nurses, doctors on call, meds, monitors, etc.) across the US?

3. If you divide the figure from #1 into the figure for #2, you'll know approximately how many children like Saybie (with a similar expenditure per child, @ least) the country can afford.

On pre-term birth, see Preterm Birth | Maternal and Infant Health | Reproductive Health | CDC

On preterm birth costs, see The impact of premature birth on society | March of Dimes

"How much does premature birth cost society?

"In 2007, the Institute of Medicine reported that the cost associated with premature birth in the United States was $26.2 billion each year. Here’s how the numbers add up:

- $16.9 billion in medical and health care costs for the baby
- $1.9 billion in labor and delivery costs for mom
- $611 million for early intervention services. These are programs for children from birth to age 3 with disabilities and developmental delays. They help children learn physical, thinking, communicating, social and self-help skills that normally develop before age 3.
- $1.1 billion for special education services. These services are specially designed for children with disabilities ages 3 through 21. They help children with development and learning. Children can get these services at school, at home, in hospitals and in other places, as needed.
- $5.7 billion in lost work and pay for people born prematurely"

(My emphasis - more information @ the URL)

Plus noted impacts to the child's performance @ school, the child's prospects for work, & possible impacts to SSI. In 2007, the March of Dimes noted 1 in 10 births in the US were premature.
 
Re: He ain't heavy

Define the word science.

Thread OP is a face palm.
 
sangha said:
That's an oxymoron like "right wing principles "
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And "left wing principles". The right wants to tell me what I can do with my body, and the left wants to tell me what I can do with my money.

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maquiscat said:
And "left wing principles". The right wants to tell me what I can do with my body, and the left wants to tell me what I can do with my money.

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You can do whatever you want with your money
 
DebateChallenge said:
Abortion is against science and its against common sense, its murder plain and simple. We need to ban it altogether, this article hits the nail right on the head.
Penny Nance: World'''s tiniest surviving preemie shows abortion isn’t in line with science or common sense | Fox News
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Why do you keep making new threads and then abandoning them without actually being involved in the discussion? What happened to your thread on 'travelling to have an abortion?"

This topic has been done to death and you can just scroll and read exactly the same answers you'll get here. Mine can all be cut & pasted from OneNote, that's how unoriginal your post is.
 
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DebateChallenge said:
Sure its murder, its just legalized murder.
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Wrong:

--Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

FromMurder | Definition of Murder by Merriam-Webster

--Murder: the killing of another human being*under conditions specifically covered in law.In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime,\ as robbery or arson (first-degree murder),and murder by*intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

From*Murder* | Definition of Murder* at Dictionary.com

--Murder:is the deliberate and illegal killing of a person.

From*Collins English Dictionary | Page Not Found (404)

--Murder: the crime of intentionally killing a person

MURDER | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

​
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Simply not true. It's Fox News FFS! Science is part and parcel of abortion as well as neonatal care. Science tells us that survival at that premature age is between 20 and 30% despite the best care possible. Sco=iece tells us that NO baby born before 20 weeks has ever lived. Science tells us that a Canadian baby held the earliest surviving premie record for something like 30 years despite massive advances in neonatal ICBU care. The only thing special about this child is her very low birth weight.
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Agreed.

She was 23 weeks but very tiny.

Before 21 weeks the lungs have no air sacs and are the consistency of gelatin.

Also the digestive system before 21 weeks is not developed enough to digest any nourishment.
 
It's modern medical science that makes abortion safe and manageable.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Abortion is against science and its against common sense, its murder plain and simple. We need to ban it altogether, this article hits the nail right on the head.
Penny Nance: World'''s tiniest surviving preemie shows abortion isn’t in line with science or common sense | Fox News
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are they failing to remove the fetus?

seems like if you don't want to be pregnant and you are its an option to no longer be

but if they are not getting rid of the fetus i could see your point

not murder plain and simple because its legal

and it should be legal because we slaughter less intelligent and more independent life all the time so i don't see any reason to deny the mothers will in this

i will band together with other people to oppose your nonsense never you fear
 
maquiscat said:
And "left wing principles". The right wants to tell me what I can do with my body, and the left wants to tell me what I can do with my money.

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The right isn't telling anyone what they can do with their body. The topic of abortion has always concerned the life of the child, not the mothers body.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Abortion is never safe for the baby.
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That's not the plan. But it used to have a chance of killing both - so did childbirth. I suppose we could all go back to ancient times, where if a woman wanted an abortion, or at least if men wanted her to, she could simply drink the bitter waters and miscarry. In God's temple.
 
Oborosen said:
The right isn't telling anyone what they can do with their body. The topic of abortion has always concerned the life of the child, not the mothers body.
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The right is the one that wants us to not have same sex marriage and has made laws against homosexual sex acts in the past. Additionally, it is about the mother's body if the ZEF is in her body. That is what bodily autonomy is about. If we were more worried about life, then we would allow for organ harvest after death, even if permission we're not given, and maybe even before death for those we have two of like kidneys.

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Oborosen said:
The right isn't telling anyone what they can do with their body. The topic of abortion has always concerned the life of the child, not the mothers body.
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Concern for the life of the fetus? Yes. Child? Not feeling it. If they were concerned about lives of children, assurance of high quality health care for all would be their mantra.
 
Lots of drama in this language

DebateChallenge said:
Abortion is never safe for the baby.
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Words have meanings, especially in court. If babies were being murdered, that would mean after the baby was born, & was in the world. If deliberately killed after birth, then that is murder.

But that's not the case, what we're discussing here is legal abortion of a fetus, typically early in the pregnancy. That's when the vast majority of abortions take place. The only exceptions I'm aware of is when the fetus is dying or dead, & the woman's life or health is in danger. Then a therapeutic abortion may be the only surgical option - & that's @ the woman's option.
 
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