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[W: 594] A great question for pro abortion types

Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Y2L, Thank you for your considered reply. I do have a couple of exceptions.
The time line you show with the denial of credit, inability to get an apartment, etc. are ending's no more valid or predictable than opining that the aborted child will cure cancer, conquer space/time or any other fairy tale ending. We can't predict the outcome of the delivered, we can only know the immediate result of abortion.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...
A woman going into continuing pregnancy without adequate resources is very likely to have adverse outcome. If she is already scraping by to make ends meet...outside of a miracle or mysterious benefactor...this situation will only get worse. Women who are in such positions are more likely to make unfortunate decisions in order to not be homeless. Ending up with controlling abusive men with no way out . The women making these decisions have limited resources.

That timeline is a current and near future timeline.

A poster here talked about speaking with his female family members...and they all stated pregnancy was a mere inconvenience. I asked him if his female family members had good social resources, good access to health care, and housing security. I never got a response back. I asked twice. My guess is the lack of response answered my question. Women who chose abortion are more often than not, lacking resources -medical/social/financial. Given the lack of such resources....it is a bit easier to predict outcomes.

I thank God I never felt compelled due to my situation to make such decisions. I have had the luxury of good financial/social/medical resources nearly all of my life.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

year2late said:
A woman going into continuing pregnancy without adequate resources is very likely to have adverse outcome. If she is already scraping by to make ends meet...outside of a miracle or mysterious benefactor...this situation will only get worse. Women who are in such positions are more likely to make unfortunate decisions in order to not be homeless. Ending up with controlling abusive men with no way out . The women making these decisions have limited resources.

That timeline is a current and near future timeline.

A poster here talked about speaking with his female family members...and they all stated pregnancy was a mere inconvenience. I asked him if his female family members had good social resources, good access to health care, and housing security. I never got a response back. I asked twice. My guess is the lack of response answered my question. Women who chose abortion are more often than not, lacking resources -medical/social/financial. Given the lack of such resources....it is a bit easier to predict outcomes.

I thank God I never felt compelled due to my situation to make such decisions. I have had the luxury of good financial/social/medical resources nearly all of my life.
Click to expand...

I understand your concern, but aren't you considering only the worst case scenario's? There are far too many abortions for convenience.
Admittedly, I can't substantiate the numerical difference between the two different situations. My only wonder of your usual considered reply ,is why birth control, which is easily available isn't the first choice, or at least the day after consideration. Those two options are as easily available as abortion. Why wait so very long? My own answer, only my opinion of course, is the slovenly lifestyle lived by those who wait so long, Again, my opinion, is that defending late term abortion is to embrace a cavalier view of life. Not so very much removed from embracing the willfully homeless as victims...of what is an unknown thing.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Scr..aren't you forgetting the very being from which the argument commences? Only her body is affected? Perhaps so, unless the aborted fetus is female, in which case it would be hers and hers...otherwise, it is hers and his.
Body affected? What affects a body more than the end of life?
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

I said affected by the PREGNANCY. The zef is part of the pregnancy.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I understand your concern, but aren't you considering only the worst case scenario's? There are far too many abortions for convenience.
Admittedly, I can't substantiate the numerical difference between the two different situations. My only wonder of your usual considered reply ,is why birth control, which is easily available isn't the first choice, or at least the day after consideration. Those two options are as easily available as abortion. Why wait so very long? My own answer, only my opinion of course, is the slovenly lifestyle lived by those who wait so long, Again, my opinion, is that defending late term abortion is to embrace a cavalier view of life. Not so very much removed from embracing the willfully homeless as victims...of what is an unknown thing.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

Most women who choose abortion are in fact poor or working poor - which already leads to housing insecurity. Most already are without insurance or on Medicaid (in many areas this leaves you with clinics with long waits- even with appointments - even further limiting ability to work. Most already have a child they are raising .That is not trivial convenience. That is a woman fearing homelessness and the health and welfare of herself and her born children.


I think a pragmatic discussion is more helpful. What will prevent abortions? Since it is not pragmatic to think people will stop having "recreational" sex...how about improving access and availability of the most reliable contraception. Long term contraception is highly effective for years. Unfortunately, the women most at risk for choosing abortion - too rich for Medicaid, too poor for insurance or self pay - cannot afford the price tag (about twice the cost of an abortion).

Development with availability and accessibility of long term contraception would be a real boost as well.
 
manofknowledge said:
Human is an adjective as well as a noun. As adjective it describes an object as being from a human e.g. human hair. Hair is not a human. Human fetus is not a human it is from a human. It cannot live independently from the mother. It is part of the mother.
Click to expand...


concernedpuma said:
Sorry, my Florida cousin. You are incorrect. Many fetus' can and have survived independent of the mother.
Further, your point is noted, but your logic is failing. You write as if: birds have two legs, people have two legs, birds fly, therefore human's fly.
The important issue is the ability of the living to erase those that will follow. Do you see that?
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

You are mistaken a fetus does not become viable until past 21 weeks.

At 20 weeks the lungs do not even have air sacs.

At 20 weeks the lungs of the fetus are the consistency of gelatin.


The youngest premie to ever live was 21 weeks 5 days old and was considered a medical miracle.

Elective abortions do not take place that late.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Y2L, Thank you for your considered reply. I do have a couple of exceptions.
The time line you show with the denial of credit, inability to get an apartment, etc. are ending's no more valid or predictable than opining that the aborted child will cure cancer, conquer space/time or any other fairy tale ending. We can't predict the outcome of the delivered, we can only know the immediate result of abortion.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

year2late said:
A woman going into continuing pregnancy without adequate resources is very likely to have adverse outcome. If she is already scraping by to make ends meet...outside of a miracle or mysterious benefactor...this situation will only get worse. Women who are in such positions are more likely to make unfortunate decisions in order to not be homeless. Ending up with controlling abusive men with no way out . The women making these decisions have limited resources.

That timeline is a current and near future timeline.

A poster here talked about speaking with his female family members...and they all stated pregnancy was a mere inconvenience. I asked him if his female family members had good social resources, good access to health care, and housing security. I never got a response back. I asked twice. My guess is the lack of response answered my question. Women who chose abortion are more often than not, lacking resources -medical/social/financial. Given the lack of such resources....it is a bit easier to predict outcomes.

I thank God I never felt compelled due to my situation to make such decisions. I have had the luxury of good financial/social/medical resources nearly all of my life.
Click to expand...

I agree.

I had complications early on during my first pregnancy.
I had to quit my part time job and I had to drop the college classes we had paid for.

Thankfully my husband was there to support us financially, emotionally ,and physically.
 
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Re: A great question for pro abortion types

minnie616 said:
I agree.

I had complications early on during my first pregnancy.
I had to quit my part time job and I had to drop the college classes we had paid for.

Thankfully my husband was there to support us financially, emotionally ,and physically.
Click to expand...

I was off work nearly six months. The little income I got was not even enough to pay rent let alone cobra payments.:(

I was lucky to have a strong support system.

Most people who chose abortion do not have such "luxuries".
 
concernedpuma said:
Sorry, my Florida cousin. You are incorrect. Many fetus' can and have survived independent of the mother.
Further, your point is noted, but your logic is failing. You write as if: birds have two legs, people have two legs, birds fly, therefore human's fly.
The important issue is the ability of the living to erase those that will follow. Do you see that?
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

The important issue is that no one has the right to confiscate a woman's body to use as an incubator.
 
manofknowledge said:
The important issue is that no one has the right to confiscate a woman's body to use as an incubator.
Click to expand...

Your equation of pregnancy and incubation, and further assertion that no one has the right to your strawman conclusion of confiscation of a woman's body as an incubator, are both left with little instruction of how to divine your meaning or proof of valid argument.
I respect your view, but don't think I can agree or argue with what I don't understand. Expound, please.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I understand your concern, but aren't you considering only the worst case scenario's? There are far too many abortions for convenience.

CP
Click to expand...

Statistically that's not true. Especially when late term abortions are considered.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

jaeger19 said:
Statistically that's not true. Especially when late term abortions are considered.
Click to expand...

Curious. How can you write that statistically it isn't true, when the only figure I offered was a variable: "far too many" ?
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Curious. How can you write that statistically it isn't true, when the only figure I offered was a variable: "far too many" ?
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

Because statistically,, its simply not true that there are "far too many abortions"..done for convenience.

Certainly not enough to justify denying women the right to choose.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

jaeger19 said:
Because statistically,, its simply not true that there are "far too many abortions"..done for convenience.

Certainly not enough to justify denying women the right to choose.
Click to expand...

I'm not aware of any women having abortions for convenience. Of all the different lists I've seen of the reasons why women need abortions, I have never seen 'convenience' listed.

I'm pretty sure it doesnt happen.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I'm not aware of any women having abortions for convenience. Of all the different lists I've seen of the reasons why women need abortions, I have never seen 'convenience' listed. I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen.
Click to expand...

Claiming abortions are done just for convenience is 100% right. Every abortion is the result of something inconvenient going on, like, no money for a child right now, family obligations that take the woman away or interrupt her life so that the focus every child deserves is denied, mother's poor health, unstable relationships, finishing HS or college, job loss if a child is born.

The word 'inconvenient' isn't a real reason. It's simply a broad statement meaning there are real reasons. The list of inconveniences is long, significant and serious. When a woman says she can't, right now, raise a child with the love, dedication, security and work every child deserves it would be wise to listen to her reasons.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

weaver2 said:
Claiming abortions are done just for convenience is 100% right. Every abortion is the result of something inconvenient going on, like, no money for a child right now, family obligations that take the woman away or interrupt her life so that the focus every child deserves is denied, mother's poor health, unstable relationships, finishing HS or college, job loss if a child is born.

The word 'inconvenient' isn't a real reason. It's simply a broad statement meaning there are real reasons. The list of inconveniences is long, significant and serious. When a woman says she can't, right now, raise a child with the love, dedication, security and work every child deserves it would be wise to listen to her reasons.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely. The pro-life supporters mostly use it to indicate something minor, whimsical, casual, selfish. They use it to disprespect the very real reasons that women do choose to have abortions, mnimizing every single thing in a person's life (besides life, breathing) to a convenience.

I'm pretty sure if you asked them (and if they were honest) that they would not agree that everything in their lives was a convenience...like their jobs, finishing high school, caring for their dependents, making sure your family has a secure place to live and food on the table, upholding their commitments to their churches and communities, etc etc etc. And I bet they wouldnt teach their kids that those things are conveniences either.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I disagree completely. The pro-life supporters mostly use it to indicate something minor, whimsical, casual, selfish. They use it to disprespect the very real reasons that women do choose to have abortions, mnimizing every single thing in a person's life (besides life, breathing) to a convenience.

I'm pretty sure if you asked them (and if they were honest) that they would not agree that everything in their lives was a convenience...like their jobs, finishing high school, caring for their dependents, making sure your family has a secure place to live and food on the table, upholding their commitments to their churches and communities, etc etc etc. And I bet they wouldnt teach their kids that those things are conveniences either.
Click to expand...

Quite a cleaver twist.
:minimizing everything to include breath, living. That somehow is to be enshrined only to whom? Folks you see in the market, the carwash, or whatever? You have no right to say that only those you can ascribe as living to are worthy of life.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

weaver2 said:
Claiming abortions are done just for convenience is 100% right. Every abortion is the result of something inconvenient going on, like, no money for a child right now, family obligations that take the woman away or interrupt her life so that the focus every child deserves is denied, mother's poor health, unstable relationships, finishing HS or college, job loss if a child is born.

The word 'inconvenient' isn't a real reason. It's simply a broad statement meaning there are real reasons. The list of inconveniences is long, significant and serious. When a woman says she can't, right now, raise a child with the love, dedication, security and work every child deserves it would be wise to listen to her reasons.
Click to expand...

I accept as fact your first.. The rest of your post is imaginary for convenience.
Regards,
CP
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I disagree completely. The pro-life supporters mostly use it to indicate something minor, whimsical, casual, selfish. They use it to disrespect the very real reasons that women do choose to have abortions, minimizing every single thing in a person's life (besides life, breathing) to a convenience.

I'm pretty sure if you asked them (and if they were honest) that they would not agree that everything in their lives was a convenience...like their jobs, finishing high school, caring for their dependents, making sure your family has a secure place to live and food on the table, upholding their commitments to their churches and communities, etc etc etc. And I bet they wouldnt teach their kids that those things are conveniences either.
Click to expand...
concernedpuma said:
Quite a cleaver twist.
:minimizing everything to include breath, living. That somehow is to be enshrined only to whom? Folks you see in the market, the carwash, or whatever? You have no right to say that only those you can ascribe as living to are worthy of life.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

I dont do that. I leave that up to each individual woman about the unborn inside her.

That's what pro-CHOICE means. I decide for no one...the woman to whom all those things...which you dismissed...matters makes the decision.

I notice that you did not address at all my opinion on the content of people's lives. You just commented that it's clever. Yes? Yes, and accurate.

I believe in quality of life, not quantity.
 
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Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I dont do that. I leave that up to each individual woman about the unborn inside her.

That's what pro-CHOICE means. I decide for no one...the woman to whom all those things...which you dismissed...matters makes the decision.

I notice that you did not address at all my opinion on the content of people's lives. You just commented that it's clever. Yes? Yes, and accurate.

I believe in quality of life, not quantity.
Click to expand...

Leaving aside the redundancy and oft repeated(not my problem) approach. What then, and I have asked this of you before...is the quality of life of a stolen life?
Regards
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Leaving aside the redundancy and oft repeated(not my problem) approach. What then, and I have asked this of you before...is the quality of life of a stolen life?
Regards
CP
Click to expand...


I dont know...it may be severely defective, hard to say. Since it does not yet have one, I dont see how it can be quantified.

Can you tell me that the "potential" quality of life for the unborn is more important than the present quality of life of a woman already living her life and contributing to society? What is your opinion?
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

jaeger19 said:
Because statistically,, its simply not true that there are "far too many abortions"..done for convenience.

Certainly not enough to justify denying women the right to choose.
Click to expand...

Back to you...certainly not enough? Are you working some percentage you haven't presented? It seems you are the victim of base and simplistic reasoning by pro-abortion presenters.
It is unfortunate that those of us that oppose abortion as a mere fact of life are presented as anti-woman. I certainly am not anti-women. I am however proud to argue the rights of the unborn.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Leaving aside the redundancy and oft repeated(not my problem) approach. What then, and I have asked this of you before...is the quality of life of a stolen life?
Regards
CP
Click to expand...


Please dont answer questions with questions. I'm happy to answer yours if you answer mine.

(And I gave you a direct answer to that question: "it does not yet have one".)
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I dont know...it may be severely defective, hard to say. Since it does not yet have one, I dont see how it can be quantified.

Can you tell me that the "potential" quality of life for the unborn is more important than the present quality of life of a woman already living her life and contributing to society? What is your opinion?
Click to expand...

I accept, with some reservation, your first sentence. I don't know either.
As to the rest: the unborn is an unknown potential. We do, however, know some thing's about the one seeking abortion, don't we?
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I accept, with some reservation, your first sentence. I don't know either.
As to the rest: the unborn is an unknown potential. We do, however, know some thing's about the one seeking abortion, don't we?
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

We do know something about the woman...she's a contributing member of society (unless she's comatose and hospitalized). And it's not hard to imagine that they have responsibilities and obligations to family, employer, church, community, society, etc. that they experience joy and pain and passion and fear and all the normal things that people do. And thus that an unplanned child jeopardizes all those things, including her health.

What do you know about the one seeking the abortion? You clearly imply "we" know something...so what do you know?
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
Please dont answer questions with questions. I'm happy to answer yours if you answer mine.

(And I gave you a direct answer to that question: "it does not yet have one".)
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to answer your question with another. IF I did that, well I can't imagine why I did. Sorry if I did, unless of course, you left me with an incomplete answer to my query of you. I won't presume that so... what is your direct question?
Regards,
CP
 
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