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[W: 594] A great question for pro abortion types

Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Uh huh. Once again you expect a reader to do your work. When you write, please then don't take the cheap out of incomplete thought, requiring a reader to fill in insinuated and hollow blanks. Please be specific and don't bother others.
Regards,
CP
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No work required. Your words were quoted...any can make their own conclusions.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Minnie; by painless injection you are describing lethal injection like those for First degree murders. Is that an equivalent comparison you embrace? Let me give you your due = You don't feel that way. Maybe you will make a distinction more worthy of you?
Regards,
CP
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Scrabaholic said:
Minnie is responding to the concern about fetal pain.
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concernedpuma said:
So am I.
Regards,
CP
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Exactly:

I was responding to the comment about fetal pain.

I miscarried a very malformed fetus at about 20 weeks gestation and it gives me comfort to know it did not feel pain just like the woman in this article whose preemie son only lived a few seconds when was prematurally born at 22 and half weeks.

A <SNIP> from the article Laws based on fetal pain are being dressed with pseudoscience

What I know from embryology is that at 22 1/2 weeks gestational age the neural pathways for pain do not exist. This science is supported by what I’ve sadly seen as an OB/GYN witnessing deaths in the delivery room from extreme prematurity. This is also what I experienced first hand as a mother. There was no agony from extreme hypoxia and acidosis. No consciousness or awareness. Death just simply came.

So with the body of evidence indicating neural pathways for pain don’t exist at 22 1/2 weeks and comfort care for the extremely premature babies born to die being a blanket and much more about comforting the grieving parents than anything else, why this push for fetal pain?
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Laws based on fetal pain are being dressed with pseudoscience
 
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Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
My perceived level of maturity? From where did you glean that? Any chance you are shorting off the idea that we agree on something? Certainly that presupposition would be cowardly. You're not a coward, are you?
Regards,
CP
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You did quote me responding to someone else who believed if someone had an abortion they were showing they were not mature enough to have sex in a way insinuating you agreed with that person's view about adulthood, maturity, and sex, hence a perceived level of maturity in others based on a single decision they may make about having or not having an abortion.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
Logical1 said:
The question is-----------if the baby aborted is not human, why are organs being harvested from them. That doesnt seem to compute.

Any logical comments?
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Getting back to the original OP. Why do you demand logical comments when your question is not only illogical it's based on anti-abortion lies.

A human fetus is human but it is not a born human being, it's a fetus. Some sinister group is not "harvesting" organs from babies. The woman getting a legal abortion has legally donated the tissue to research. Live tissue is very expensive to prepare and ship and the clinic is legally charging for shipping and handling.

What other comments were you expecting?
 
Logical1 said:
The question is-----------if the baby aborted is not human, why are organs being harvested from them. That doesnt seem to compute.

Any logical comments?
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It's actually a pretty dumb question, predicated as it is on a misnomer: that people are "pro-abortion". I've been following, debating, and discussing the issue since the 1980's.......and with all the varying opinions on the subject, I've never met a single person who is "pro-abortion". As a matter of fact, no one really LIKES abortion (although obviously some DISLIKE it a lot more).

It's inconceivable who would be pro-abortion. I dunno......maybe doctors who earn their income from performing them? But then most of those doctors provide a range of other obstetric, gynecological, and other reproductive health services.

And "if the baby aborted is not human"? Well, certainly it's a human fetus or embryo (as opposed to.....what.....dog? Giraffe?) The relevant question is: is the fetus or embryo a "person" in the sense of deserving all the rights and privileges that normally go along with personhood?

Opinions vary, of course, but there's absolutely no question that where civil law is concerned, the word "person" rarely, if ever, applies to anyone or anything not yet born.
 
jamesrodom said:
It's actually a pretty dumb question, predicated as it is on a misnomer: that people are "pro-abortion". I've been following, debating, and discussing the issue since the 1980's.......and with all the varying opinions on the subject, I've never met a single person who is "pro-abortion". As a matter of fact, no one really LIKES abortion (although obviously some DISLIKE it a lot more).

It's inconceivable who would be pro-abortion. I dunno......maybe doctors who earn their income from performing them? But then most of those doctors provide a range of other obstetric, gynecological, and other reproductive health services.

And "if the baby aborted is not human"? Well, certainly it's a human fetus or embryo (as opposed to.....what.....dog? Giraffe?) The relevant question is: is the fetus or embryo a "person" in the sense of deserving all the rights and privileges that normally go along with personhood?

Opinions vary, of course, but there's absolutely no question that where civil law is concerned, the word "person" rarely, if ever, applies to anyone or anything not yet born.
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James, you are a good read. One question for you: what then is your definition of born? Vaginal passage? What of Caesarian delivery? Are those children(my definition) never born, and undeserving of rights? Our Constitution was always intended to help the least of us. Can there be any less a person than the unborn and absolutely dependent?
Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
James, you are a good read. One question for you: what then is your definition of born? Vaginal passage? What of Caesarian delivery? Are those children(my definition) never born, and undeserving of rights? Our Constitution was always intended to help the least of us. Can there be any less a person than the unborn and absolutely dependent?
Regards,
CP
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Once the fetus is cut off from the woman's physiology, a baby is born. Whether by C-section or vaginal delivery.
 
concernedpuma said:
James, you are a good read. One question for you: what then is your definition of born? Vaginal passage? What of Caesarian delivery? Are those children(my definition) never born, and undeserving of rights? Our Constitution was always intended to help the least of us. Can there be any less a person than the unborn and absolutely dependent?
Regards,
CP
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There are so many ways to cut, slice, dice and split hairs over the definition of "born", I don't really have anything to contribute to it. I'd be far more likely to rely on the medical and/or legal definition, which I'm guessing is when a baby fully emerges from the mother, either vaginally or abdominally in the event of a C-section.

Regarding the Constitution, I don't think it was ever intended to apply to anyone/anything not yet born and hundreds of years of law and tradition confirms this. Forget abortion for a moment and think of the legal definition of person or human being. Are fetuses counted in the federal census? Do miscarriages require death certificates? Can embryos inherit property? Can parents take a tax deduction for the year in which their baby was conceived?

Even in states where abortion used to be illegal, the crime of having or performing one was usually a misdemeanor, not a felony. It was therefore never classified as "homicide" or its equivalent. The criminal code reflected what I think most people knew intuitively: there is a difference between a fetus/embryo and a baby.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

I am neither pro life nor am I pro choice. I do not see how anything as plentiful as human life can have any intrinsic value to it. I value my life. I value the lives of those I love. I value the lives of those I like. I even value the lives of those I know and do not dislike. Beyond that, there are a few human populations I care about. The rest of the human species I do not care about. If they did not exist I, and the people I care about would be better off. Fewer people means that there is more of everything good to go around.

Because I am pro death I favor abortion and capital punishment. I want capital punishment to be frequently carried out. I am in favor of replacing Temporary Assistance for Need Families with free abortion on demand. I think we should pay the biologically inferior to be sterilized.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

SmartCat said:
I am neither pro life nor am I pro choice. I do not see how anything as plentiful as human life can have any intrinsic value to it. I value my life. I value the lives of those I love. I value the lives of those I like. I even value the lives of those I know and do not dislike. Beyond that, there are a few human populations I care about. The rest of the human species I do not care about. If they did not exist I, and the people I care about would be better off. Fewer people means that there is more of everything good to go around.

Because I am pro death I favor abortion and capital punishment. I want capital punishment to be frequently carried out. I am in favor of replacing Temporary Assistance for Need Families with free abortion on demand. I think we should pay the biologically inferior to be sterilized.
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I'm good with much of that, but not your last sentence.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

SmartCat said:
I am neither pro life nor am I pro choice. I do not see how anything as plentiful as human life can have any intrinsic value to it. I value my life. I value the lives of those I love. I value the lives of those I like. I even value the lives of those I know and do not dislike. Beyond that, there are a few human populations I care about. The rest of the human species I do not care about. If they did not exist I, and the people I care about would be better off. Fewer people means that there is more of everything good to go around.

Because I am pro death I favor abortion and capital punishment. I want capital punishment to be frequently carried out. I am in favor of replacing Temporary Assistance for Need Families with free abortion on demand. I think we should pay the biologically inferior to be sterilized.
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You ought be more careful with what you write. You even hooked my respected pro-abortion opponent with your contribution until the last, most assuredly lounge in cheek paragraph. The mystery is why she/he objected to even that.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
You ought be more careful with what you write. You even hooked my respected pro-abortion opponent with your contribution until the last, most assuredly lounge in cheek paragraph. The mystery is why she/he objected to even that.
Regards,
CP
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I'm not aware of any pro-abortion posters...can you please explain why you believe that those that believe in a woman's right to decide if she should remain pregnant = being pro-abortion?

Please articulate a direct answer to my question...unless you plan to elaborate instead in your usual passive-aggressive fashion?
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I'm not aware of any pro-abortion posters...can you please explain why you believe that those that believe in a woman's right to decide if she should remain pregnant = being pro-abortion?

Please articulate a direct answer to my question...unless you plan to elaborate instead in your usual passive-aggressive fashion?
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You must keep tickler file that helps you keep up with your amateurish psychological analysis of those who take the time to try to help you. I see once again you have trotted out the passive/aggressive diagnosis for me. One again, and for the last time: I concede that there are times in early term, very early, when abortion ought be prescribed, Therein is the end of that.
The rest of your post is easily explained =
Pro= for
Con = against.
You are pro abortion on demand, I am against unless certain sorely limited circumstances exist.
Was my reply passive aggressive, or will you need to update your card fie?
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
You must keep tickler file that helps you keep up with your amateurish psychological analysis of those who take the time to try to help you. I see once again you have trotted out the passive/aggressive diagnosis for me. One again, and for the last time: I concede that there are times in early term, very early, when abortion ought be prescribed, Therein is the end of that.
The rest of your post is easily explained =
Pro= for
Con = against.
You are pro abortion on demand, I am against unless certain sorely limited circumstances exist.
Was my reply passive aggressive, or will you need to update your card fie?
Regards,
CP
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I think there is a distinct difference between pro-choice and proabortion.

Most pro-choicers I know of are individually against abortion. Meaning they would never (outside of a grave medical issue) choose abortion.

Pro-abortion has a connotation of being for an abortion to take place. I know of no pro-choicer who is for or against an abortion to take place. The whole point is it is none of your or my business.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
You must keep tickler file that helps you keep up with your amateurish psychological analysis of those who take the time to try to help you. I see once again you have trotted out the passive/aggressive diagnosis for me. One again, and for the last time: I concede that there are times in early term, very early, when abortion ought be prescribed, Therein is the end of that.
The rest of your post is easily explained =
Pro= for
Con = against.
You are pro abortion on demand, I am against unless certain sorely limited circumstances exist.
Was my reply passive aggressive, or will you need to update your card fie?
Regards,
CP
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Not passive aggressive, just wrong.

Believing that a woman has the right to choose to remain pregnant or not is not the same as "pro"moting or viewing abortion positively.

It means I value her bodily sovereignty and self-determination and right to choose a safer medical procedure.

I support couples's rights to get legal divorces too. I consider them a sad necessity, just like abortion...does that mean I'm 'pro-divorce?" :roll:

Do you need more distinctions? Otherwise, perhaps a dictionary to clarify words better for you.
 
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Re: A great question for pro abortion types

year2late said:
I think there is a distinct difference between pro-choice and proabortion.

Most pro-choicers I know of are individually against abortion. Meaning they would never (outside of a grave medical issue) choose abortion.

Pro-abortion has a connotation of being for an abortion to take place. I know of no pro-choicer who is for or against an abortion to take place. The whole point is it is none of your or my business.
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Sorry, Y2L, I disagree. It is yours and my own my concern. Because we don't know the circumstance of murder, doesn't mean we are not entitled to have an opinion about murder. Murder is terrible, whether we know the person's involved or not. Isn't that so?
That being written; I do not equate all nor any particular abortion with murder.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
Not passive aggressive, just wrong.

Believing that a woman has the right to choose to remain pregnant or not is not the same as "pro"moting or viewing abortion positively.

It means I value her bodily sovereignty and self-determination and right to choose a safer medical procedure.

I support couples's rights to get legal divorces too. I consider them a sad necessity, just like abortion...does that mean I'm 'pro-divorce?" :roll:

Do you need more distinctions? Otherwise, perhaps a dictionary to clarify words better for you.
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Excepting the parting shot about my need for a dictionary (I understand your need for a poo throwing exit) I agree with much of what you write. Your point about divorce is well placed. Our essential difference is forgiveness for slovenly living the consequences thereof and the hellish pass you so freely give based solely on the rights of the mother. My stand is that any boy or girl who might have been issued after conventional sex act and subsequent pregnancy, has a right to life.
The right to life is preeminent! Lacking life, no other rights mean anything.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Sorry, Y2L, I disagree. It is yours and my own my concern. Because we don't know the circumstance of murder, doesn't mean we are not entitled to have an opinion about murder. Murder is terrible, whether we know the person's involved or not. Isn't that so?
That being written; I do not equate all nor any particular abortion with murder.
Regards,
CP
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Murder is a legal term. Legal abortion is not murder.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Isn't the whole legal system based upon the will of the people? Abortion isn't currently codified as murder.
Regards,
CP
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But the reality is that is legally not murder. I accept that you may want it to be illegal and qualified for murder.

Words mean things. Particularly in this debate. Accuracy is important.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

year2late said:
But the reality is that is legally not murder. I accept that you may want it to be illegal and qualified for murder.

Words mean things. Particularly in this debate. Accuracy is important.
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As usual, you are correct to your point. Further, you are correct in stating I want MANY abortions today stopped. If it means making it illegal with consequence, then I am for it.
Consider when stating words have meaning, that abortion is a time indeterminant procedure performed during sometime of pregnancy. There is no codified date that decides if it is within a day, week, or month. So far as I am concerned, causing death of any viable human being is murder. Also, you and I are merely viable organisms. Suicide is illegal(most places). Excepting you and I could make that choice for ourselves, wherein is the difference?
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
As usual, you are correct to your point. Further, you are correct in stating I want MANY abortions today stopped. If it means making it illegal with consequence, then I am for it.
Consider when stating words have meaning, that abortion is a time indeterminant procedure performed during sometime of pregnancy. There is no codified date that decides if it is within a day, week, or month. So far as I am concerned, causing death of any viable human being is murder. Also, you and I are merely viable organisms. Suicide is illegal(most places). Excepting you and I could make that choice for ourselves, wherein is the difference?
Regards,
CP
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An abortion before viabilty is legal in the USA.

In the USA both men and women have bodily autonomy and Religious Liberty.

Bodily autonomy means a person has control over whom or what uses their body, for what, and for how long.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
As usual, you are correct to your point. Further, you are correct in stating I want MANY abortions today stopped. If it means making it illegal with consequence, then I am for it.
Consider when stating words have meaning, that abortion is a time indeterminant procedure performed during sometime of pregnancy. There is no codified date that decides if it is within a day, week, or month. So far as I am concerned, causing death of any viable human being is murder. Also, you and I are merely viable organisms. Suicide is illegal(most places). Excepting you and I could make that choice for ourselves, wherein is the difference?
Regards,
CP
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Suicide is not illegal in my country or yours.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Scrabaholic said:
Suicide is not illegal in my country or yours.
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Physician assisted suicide is gaining acceptance .
 
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