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[W: 594] A great question for pro abortion types

Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Please don't play me. I see finally the question you thought I was dodging. I believe it s this..
how can we have more stringent laws on abortion and also be 'absolutely considerate of women's lives?'
I will be happy to give my thoughts, once we sharpen the spear...

When you write of women's lives, are you referring to their ability to live through delivery, or how their lives are changed by the task of raising children?
Regards,
CP
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Sorry, I asked you direct questions, including the original one:

how can we have more stringent laws on abortion and also be 'absolutely considerate of women's lives?'​

You were the one that made the claim and I have written it almost exactly. I have quoted it directly in at least 3 other posts. If it's not as described below...then you tell me...it was YOUR claim.

And are you an American? (not all who post here are citizens) If so, do you really have to ask me if the Constitution that protects people's right to life includes our entire lives? Sick, pregnant, healthy, happy, sad, working, playing, etc?


And I mentioned I'd be happy to answer yours, once you answered mine. Direct answers. Is that not possible? My questions are clear.

Edit: stop accusing me of 'playing you' or being tricky. I am being 100% straightforward. It is you that are continually attempting to avoid giving straightforward answers.

For reference, your words from post 402.
concernedpuma said:
One can be for more stringent abortion laws, and still be absolutely considerate of the Mothers life. Those two things need not be mutually exclusive.
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Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
Sorry, I asked you direct questions, including the original one:

how can we have more stringent laws on abortion and also be 'absolutely considerate of women's lives?'​

You were the one that made the claim and I have written it almost exactly. I have quoted it directly in at least 3 other posts. If it's not as described below...then you tell me...it was YOUR claim.

And are you an American? (not all who post here are citizens) If so, do you really have to ask me if the Constitution that protects people's right to life includes our entire lives? Sick, pregnant, healthy, happy, sad, working, playing, etc?


And I mentioned I'd be happy to answer yours, once you answered mine. Direct answers. Is that not possible? My questions are clear.

Edit: stop accusing me of 'playing you' or being tricky. I am being 100% straightforward. It is you that are continually attempting to avoid giving straightforward answers.

For reference, your words from post 402.
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I recognize that you are prepared and have many unshakeable ideas. I respect that, to the point that you become tricky, then you lose me. I do wonder that you sometimes are a bit prolix, and take my inability to differentiate between your salient points, and questions as a failure to defend my position. I, like you, have sincere thoughts on this topic. I am not intimidated by your tired attempt to pretend that because your questions are multiple and hidden in your statements that I am dodging important parts.
Please, ask an elemental few questions and let's approach the topic with consideration and mutual understanding. Perhaps, you have counted me as a waste of time, okay. If you would rather disjoin, I will understand and not count it as a plus in any fashion.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I recognize that you are prepared and have many unshakeable ideas. I respect that, to the point that you become tricky, then you lose me. I do wonder that you sometimes are a bit prolix, and take my inability to differentiate between your salient points, and questions as a failure to defend my position. I, like you, have sincere thoughts on this topic. I am not intimidated by your tired attempt to pretend that because your questions are multiple and hidden in your statements that I am dodging important parts.
Please, ask an elemental few questions and let's approach the topic with consideration and mutual understanding. Perhaps, you have counted me as a waste of time, okay. If you would rather disjoin, I will understand and not count it as a plus in any fashion.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

I asked you to answer my questions. They are basic and one is merely asking you to explain a claim that you made...an answer to which could enlighten me and expand discussion.

How can one can be for more stringent abortion laws, and still be absolutely considerate of the Mothers life?​

You made the claim...why cant you support it? How?

I have posted very politely and considerately. It is you, who time after time, request after request, refuses to answer 'basic' questions. I'm a technical writer by trade...I know how to write clearly. IMO you just refuse to answer the tough questions in on an issue that is by nature...very tough.

IMO you are not posting in good faith and that is not rudeness, it is an honest observation.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
I asked you to answer my questions. They are basic and one is merely asking you to explain a claim that you made...an answer to which could enlighten me and expand discussion.

How can one can be for more stringent abortion laws, and still be absolutely considerate of the Mothers life?​

You made the claim...why cant you support it? How?

I have posted very politely and considerately. It is you, who time after time, request after request, refuses to answer 'basic' questions. I'm a technical writer by trade...I know how to write clearly. IMO you just refuse to answer the tough questions in on an issue that is by nature...very tough.

IMO you are not posting in good faith and that is not rudeness, it is an honest observation.
Click to expand...

I will answer the one clear question I see your reply...

How can one can be for more stringent abortion laws, and still be absolutely considerate of the Mothers life?​

Very easily done. If the mother's life is in jeopardy, and that were a certainty, then the pregnancy ought be terminated, early on. I would not expect the parents(either of them) forfeit their life to bring forward an issue. That is considerate, yes?
By the way, on my home page you will note my profession. I have worked with many engineers, and technical writers. I respect your craft, but fail to see how that would lead you to believe I am dodging direct questions. I surely don't mean to do that and reject that accusation.
As I asked before, rather than tell me what you perceive me as dodging, enumerate your specific wonder about my opinion, please my friend.
I want constructive dialogue with you, you seem very astute and you often make thought provoking points. I do want to expand my knowledge, but I am having a hard time parsing your questions from accusation of dodging same.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,..."

We each have been created by a Woman, NOT government. The Womans total sovereignty should only become shared with government at the point a birth record has been completed.
Perhaps we should instead be asking, "how much time after the point of birth must a Woman be given to make that decision, if it had not been made prior to labor?"
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I will answer the one clear question I see your reply...

How can one can be for more stringent abortion laws, and still be absolutely considerate of the Mothers life?​

Very easily done. If the mother's life is in jeopardy, and that were a certainty, then the pregnancy ought be terminated, early on. I would not expect the parents(either of them) forfeit their life to bring forward an issue. That is considerate, yes?
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Not remotely. If she doesnt want to be pregnant or give birth, to suffer the pain, the sacrifices to her job and her family, etc...how is that considerate?

Is your idea of "considerate" endorsing laws that use force against her will? That's the opposite of 'considerate.'

I truly dont understand your use of the word. It's completely improper.

By the way, on my home page you will note my profession. I have worked with many engineers, and technical writers. I respect your craft, but fail to see how that would lead you to believe I am dodging direct questions. I surely don't mean to do that and reject that accusation.
Click to expand...

You kept writing you didnt understand what I was writing, that it wasnt clear, to please clarify...I specified my profession because I knew I was indeed being very clear. Your improper use of the word 'considerate' is very concerning. I use the words as they are defined.

As I asked before, rather than tell me what you perceive me as dodging, enumerate your specific wonder about my opinion, please my friend.
I want constructive dialogue with you, you seem very astute and you often make thought provoking points. I do want to expand my knowledge, but I am having a hard time parsing your questions from accusation of dodging same.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

And you're doing it here ^^^^ My writing is clear. As is your avoidance of confronting the tough questions related to a tough issue. My time is indeed wasted with you. Please stop acting like you want open and honest discourse. You take passive-aggression as a diversion tactic to epic proportions that I have not seen here on the forum before.

And no, I do not respect that in the least. Bye.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
Not remotely. If she doesnt want to be pregnant or give birth, to suffer the pain, the sacrifices to her job and her family, etc...how is that considerate?

Is your idea of "considerate" endorsing laws that use force against her will? That's the opposite of 'considerate.'

I truly dont understand your use of the word. It's completely improper.



You kept writing you didnt understand what I was writing, that it wasnt clear, to please clarify...I specified my profession because I knew I was indeed being very clear. Your improper use of the word 'considerate' is very concerning. I use the words as they are defined.



And you're doing it here ^^^^ My writing is clear. As is your avoidance of confronting the tough questions related to a tough issue. My time is indeed wasted with you. Please stop acting like you want open and honest discourse. You take passive-aggression as a diversion tactic to epic proportions that I have not seen here on the forum before.

And no, I do not respect that in the least. Bye.
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I don't recall ever saying I didn't understand what you were writing. I do recall having a problem separating your narrative from your questions during our short exchange. No matter. Neither of us has convinced the other and I accept that. Maybe it was my fault, though I was being genuine.
I still respect your intellect. I am guessing we just can't communicate well in a forum as is this one on this divisive topic. Goodbye from here, and good luck. I still look forward to discourse on other topics, no prejudice will be carried forward from me toward you.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I don't recall ever saying I didn't understand what you were writing. I do recall having a problem separating your narrative from your questions during our short exchange. No matter. Neither of us has convinced the other and I accept that. Maybe it was my fault, though I was being genuine.
I still respect your intellect. I am guessing we just can't communicate well in a forum as is this one on this divisive topic. Goodbye from here, and good luck. I still look forward to discourse on other topics, no prejudice will be carried forward from me toward you.
Regards,
CP
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And I'm sorry that you dont seem to know what the use of question marks as punctuation mean. That does indeed make productive discussion difficult. Or the definition of words such as 'absolutely' and 'considerate,' esp. when you are the one introducing them in your discourse.

All these can be remedied of course, by further investment in language studies. I hope that someday, you will benefit from such and then, perhaps, be able to share your position on abortion more effectively.

I look forward to that day.

Regards,
Lursa
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Point 1}You couldn't be more wrong. All impregnated women are mothers. Up until delivery, or termination by other means
Merriam Webster below-
Definition of mother (Entry 1 of 4)
1
a
: a female parent .
Point 2) Where did you get that percentage? It is so very lunch bucket, and antithetical as to be worthy only of dismission.
Point 3)Anyone who has ever crossed swords with their progeny has fantasized about that. Thank God, it is only a passing and forgotten fantasy. Of the mothers who regret having given birth; in that group lies the best, and most loved of all of us.

Regards,
CP
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Until she has given birth or adopted, a woman is not a mother.

Pardon me, it's 59%. Mea culpa. Characteristics of U.S. Abortion Patients in 2014 and Changes Since 2008 | Guttmacher Institute

I have no idea what you are going on about with the rest of your post.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
Abortion is 14 times safer than pregnancy/childbirth. And the deaths cannot be predicted nor prevented...every single pregnancy risks a woman's life. Even Drs cant predict all the emergencies that take women's lives. This is fact.

So people that would force that decision on women, the less safe choice...how are they considerate of the woman's life? It's clear they place the life of the unborn before the woman's. And it is far far from being 'absolutely considerate' as you wrote. Do you deny this? Can you explain it?
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Pregnancy is not a life threatening condition.


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Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Stopandthink said:
Pregnancy is not a life threatening condition.


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I beg to differ. I had 2 life threatening disorders of pregnancy - when I went into my pregnancy I was healthy and had excellent resources. My doctor (very skilled, who knew me ) saw a very subtle sign and decided to do further testing. I felt fine. When they did further testing it was found that my kidneys were taking a huge hit. I am alive with functioning kidneys because I had proper resources and access to an experienced practitioner that was not rushed . I am alive because I had the financial resources to miss work to make each and every appointment. I had resources that most women who chose abortion do not have.

Pregnancy can turn into a life threatening condition with little to no warning. And a woman with little to no resources is even more in danger. I will thank you not to under rate the risks of pregnancy.

I did survive my pregnancy. When all was said and done, I have some kidney and vascular issues because of my pregnancy 25 years ago. I was off 6 months from work and went deeply in debt keeping up with rent, COBRA, etc. I was LUCKY that I kept my job and seniority.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Stopandthink said:
Pregnancy is not a life threatening condition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Incorrect. Every single pregnancy risks a woman's life. And it cannot always be predicted or prevented (obviously, since about 1000 women/yr die during pregnancy/childbirth and another 87,000 nearly do (stroke, kidney failure, aneurysm, pre-eclampsia, etc).
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
Incorrect. Every single pregnancy risks a woman's life. And it cannot always be predicted or prevented (obviously, since about 1000 women/yr die during pregnancy/childbirth and another 87,000 nearly do (stroke, kidney failure, aneurysm, pre-eclampsia, etc).
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And think of what the statistics for women who are not in a position to be pregnant (poor social/medical/financial resources/housing insecure) would be if they were forced to remain pregnant without adequate resources - clearly the stats would be worse.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Logical1 said:
If she decided she didnt want a baby why didnt her and her pardner be responsible and have safe sex???? Killing a baby is murder and for the reason she and her pardner were not responsible???????????
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You move from one faulty premise, to another, then a third. You do it so smoothly and gracefully, one would think you practice this at home like dance moves to impress next Saturday.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Logical1 said:
Which is greater, the life of the baby or a womans "rights"??????
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False dichotomy. A 'baby' has the very same 'rights' as the woman. The unborn have ZERO rights. ( fact )
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Lursa said:
And I'm sorry that you dont seem to know what the use of question marks as punctuation mean. That does indeed make productive discussion difficult. Or the definition of words such as 'absolutely' and 'considerate,' esp. when you are the one introducing them in your discourse.

All these can be remedied of course, by further investment in language studies. I hope that someday, you will benefit from such and then, perhaps, be able to share your position on abortion more effectively.


Regards,
CP
I look forward to that day.

Regards,
Lursa
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Why take such low road reply? I don't expect my ability to comprehend your verbal Circus poster posting is entirely my fault. I lay some blame on your verbose replies. I believe you are aware of my position on abortion, otherwise why the running dialogue?
You claim to be a technical writer, but can't wrap your mind about the few things I have written. That is puzzling.
I can't see engaging in semantics with you is constructive or uplifting for either of us. That is unfortunate, but dismissing another as foolish or ignorant is a cheap gambit.
I have stated that I respect you and so won't question your mastery of English as a language. I ask only the same from you.

Regards,
CP
.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Logical1 said:
Which is greater, the life of the baby or a womans "rights"??????
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The life of the baby. The woman had the right to practice safe sex, she didn't and now has the responsibiity to raise the child.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Scrabaholic said:
Until she has given birth or adopted, a woman is not a mother.

Pardon me, it's 59%. Mea culpa. Characteristics of U.S. Abortion Patients in 2014 and Changes Since 2008 | Guttmacher Institute

I have no idea what you are going on about with the rest of your post.
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I believe you don't understand, though you seem to understand that with which what you disagree.

Is your contention that a child has no mother, until birth? Nature will disprove that silly idea. Women's body's begin preparing for a child early on. Nature doesn't seem to understand abortion as a reproductive alternative, but rather its preparation deems birth a certainty.

By the way, the played notion that an opponent is lesser than you conversationally because they disagree with you begins to bend back on the claimant.
If you don't know what I am writing of, ignore the post. Otherwise, stop the tawdry exercise in self aggrandizing of superiority pretense, by written expression of tongue clucking.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Integrityrespec said:
The life of the baby. The woman had the right to practice safe sex, she didn't and now has the responsibiity to raise the child.
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How do you know she did not use contraception?


Kinda creepy how you might know that.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
I believe you don't understand, though you seem to understand that with which what you disagree.

Is your contention that a child has no mother, until birth? Nature will disprove that silly idea. Women's body's begin preparing for a child early on. Nature doesn't seem to understand abortion as a reproductive alternative, but rather its preparation deems birth a certainty.

By the way, the played notion that an opponent is lesser than you conversationally because they disagree with you begins to bend back on the claimant.
If you don't know what I am writing of, ignore the post. Otherwise, stop the tawdry exercise in self aggrandizing of superiority pretense, by written expression of tongue clucking.
Regards,
CP
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I never considered myself a mother until I gave birth. I really did not think this was odd. I said "I am going to be a mother" or "I am going to have a baby".

"mothers to be" and "fathers to be" were regular common to hear.

I respect that you see a fetus as equal to an actual child. I just do not see it the same way. Does not mean that I did not value my fetus. But did I consider my self a mother while pregnant? Not really. I was preparing for motherhood.
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

Integrityrespec said:
The life of the baby. The woman had the right to practice safe sex, she didn't and now has the responsibiity to raise the child.
Click to expand...

Oh there it is! Wondered when it would turn up.


That ol' male moral superiority, because your moral lapses never result in an observable state. Prig!!!!
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

year2late said:
I never considered myself a mother until I gave birth. I really did not think this was odd. I said "I am going to be a mother" or "I am going to have a baby".

"mothers to be" and "fathers to be" were regular common to hear.

I respect that you see a fetus as equal to an actual child. I just do not see it the same way. Does not mean that I did not value my fetus. But did I consider my self a mother while pregnant? Not really. I was preparing for motherhood.
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Y2L,
I repeat my respect and admiration for your difficulty. Further, you are of the best sort of us.
Dawdling back to nature, however, your frame was being crafted early on to deliver a child and then be a mother, even by your definition, right?
I hereby RESTATE my belief that there are genuine times when an abortion must be considered in the stark light of triage. I would never wonder that a Mother chose her own life over a dangerous birth. I wouldn't expect either that a woman should deliver a child of rape, or incest. Those conditions are known quite soon and all should be handled as rape very soon after incident. My biggest concern is abortion becoming a grotesque form of birth control. There are just too many ways to prevent pregnancy to instead abort a viable fetus.
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

weaver2 said:
Oh there it is! Wondered when it would turn up.


That ol' male moral superiority, because your moral lapses never result in an observable state. Prig!!!!
Click to expand...

There what is? I believe that pregnancy is observable and requires a male and female. What point are you making?
Regards,
CP
 
Re: A great question for pro abortion types

concernedpuma said:
Y2L,
I repeat my respect and admiration for your difficulty. Further, you are of the best sort of us.
Dawdling back to nature, however, your frame was being crafted early on to deliver a child and then be a mother, even by your definition, right?
I hereby RESTATE my belief that there are genuine times when an abortion must be considered in the stark light of triage. I would never wonder that a Mother chose her own life over a dangerous birth. I wouldn't expect either that a woman should deliver a child of rape, or incest. Those conditions are known quite soon and all should be handled as rape very soon after incident. My biggest concern is abortion becoming a grotesque form of birth control. There are just too many ways to prevent pregnancy to instead abort a viable fetus.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...

Oh spare us your hypocritic male morality. "Your belief", "(women) .. were crafted", "I wouldn't expect" , "abortion ... a grotesque". !!


Until you get pregnant and make abortion into a sacrament you're nothing but a pompous male lecturing women because the evidence of sex is obvious while your moral lapses never see the light of day. You have no moral authority to judge pregnant women.
 
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