Yes, Anti-Aborts are Crazy

Checkerboard Strangler · May 18, 2019

Guys, I think that if you rub off a batch, you should be put in prison, because you're responsible for the death of hundreds of millions of sperm cells.

Every sperm is sacred.

wolfsgirl · May 18, 2019

Bucky said:
It is amazing though a fetus inside the womb can be a patient in the hospital. Have surgery in the womb, yet is not considered a human. Completely absurd.

Whose insurance is billed for those surgeries?

<alt>doxygen · May 18, 2019

Jack Hays said:
1. Zygotes are pre-conception.

gamete + gamete = zygote. That's post conception. If you think that's wrong, please provide a link and I will stand corrected.

2. Miscarriage is a natural risk.

So is lightning. If the "life" side meant it, they'd be concerned and demand changes.

3. It's not my position to defend.

Granted. The question was rhetorical.

<alt>doxygen · May 18, 2019

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Guys, I think that if you rub off a batch, you should be put in prison, because you're responsible for the death of hundreds of millions of sperm cells.

Every sperm is sacred.

Nah, God planned for every one of my 'very necessary' masturbation sessions.

Jack Hays · May 18, 2019

<alt>doxygen said:
gamete + gamete = zygote. That's post conception. If you think that's wrong, please provide a link and I will stand corrected.

So is lightning. If the "life" side meant it, they'd be concerned and demand changes.

Granted. The question was rhetorical.

You are correct. My #1 was an error.

Jack Hays · May 18, 2019

<alt>doxygen said:
So is lightning. If the "life" side meant it, they'd be concerned and demand changes.

Well, no. Is it your contention research to reduce miscarriages is opposed by anyone?

Bucky · May 18, 2019

wolfsgirl said:
Whose insurance is billed for those surgeries?

the same as if a minor went to the hospital. actually you can be 18 and older and still be billed on your parents insurance.

minnie616 · May 19, 2019

Jack Hays said:
Because they believe life begins at conception and abortion is therefore murder.

Jack Hays said:
1. Zygotes are pre-conception.
2. Miscarriage is a natural risk.
3. It's not my position to defend.

<alt>doxygen said:
Then why don't they care about all of the zygotes that don't implant or miscarry? And those that are risked in IVF?

I have a nephew. The 20 or so fertilized eggs that died before he made it to term need a voice. Stop the wanton SLAUGHTER!

The up to about 20 excess IVF embryos not used in each IVF treatment are weeks old and are often discarded as waste
Immediately after the treatment.

Why is it ok to destroy the embryos that were not used in the IVF treatment ?

If pro life people consider the embryo in the womb as human life.

Why don’t Pro life think the extra embryos no longer needed for IVF can just be thrown away with the medical waste?

From the following :

The Paradox of the IVF Clinic and the Abortion Clinic: Are Some Embryos More Persons Than Others?

IVF treatments are performed in close to 400 centers nationwide. Over 60,000 babies are born each year through fertility treatments—including, as Daily Mail notes, some of Mitt Romney’s own grandchildren.

Many of these treatments involve the disposal of unused embryos, cultivated from fertilization through to weeks-old in development, that weren’t selected for implantation.

One IVF treatment might yield as many as 20 “surplus” embryos.

An ART Embryo Lab survey conducted by the CDC in 1999 found that labs employed a variety of techniques to handle surplus embryos. Fifty-even percent (57%) of labs report that they “immediately discard” them, through incineration as medical waste, for example;

Read more:

The Paradox of the IVF Clinic and the Abortion Clinic: Are Some Embryos More Persons Than Others? - Big Think

And from the following:

Fertility clinics destroy embryos all the time. Why aren’t conservatives after them?

In contrast, all my husband and I had to do was sign a form. Our competence to choose the outcome of our embryo was never questioned. There were no mandatory lectures on gestation, no requirement that I be explicitly told that personhood begins at conception or that I view a picture of a day-five embryo. There was no compulsory waiting period for me to reconsider my decision.
In fact, no state imposes these restrictions — so common for abortion patients — on patients with frozen embryos. With rare exceptions, the government doesn’t interfere with an IVF patient’s choices except to resolve disagreements between couples.

The disparity between how the law treats abortion patients and IVF patients reveals an ugly truth about abortion restrictions: that they are often less about protecting life than about controlling women’s bodies. Both IVF and abortion involve the destruction of fertilized eggs that could potentially develop into people. But only abortion concerns women who have had sex that they don’t want to lead to childbirth. Abortion restrictions use unwanted pregnancy as a punishment for “irresponsible sex” and remind women of the consequences of being unchaste: If you didn’t want to endure a mandatory vaginal ultrasound , you shouldn’t have had sex in the first place .

Read more:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.689ac414752a

calamity · May 19, 2019

Jack Hays said:
1. Zygotes are pre-conception.
2. Miscarriage is a natural risk.
3. It's not my position to defend.

:roll:

zy·gote
/ˈzīˌɡōt/

noun BIOLOGY

a diploid cell resulting from the fusion of two haploid gametes; a fertilized ovum.

bongsaway · May 19, 2019

Well the GOP has finally gotten out of my bedroom. Unfortunately they are now in my other half's ***** where I should be.

Jack Hays · May 19, 2019

calamity said:
:roll:

zy·gote
/ˈzīˌɡōt/

noun BIOLOGY

a diploid cell resulting from the fusion of two haploid gametes; a fertilized ovum.

Error already acknowledged. I was doing something else at the time and made a silly mistake.

Jack Hays · May 19, 2019

minnie616 said:
The up to about 20 excess IVF embryos not used in each IVF treatment are weeks old and are often discarded as waste
Immediately after the treatment.

Why is it ok to destroy the embryos that were not used in the IVF treatment ?

If pro life people consider the embryo in the womb as human life.

Why don’t Pro life think the extra embryos no longer needed for IVF can just be thrown away with the medical waste?

From the following :

The Paradox of the IVF Clinic and the Abortion Clinic: Are Some Embryos More Persons Than Others?

Read more:

The Paradox of the IVF Clinic and the Abortion Clinic: Are Some Embryos More Persons Than Others? - Big Think

And from the following:

Fertility clinics destroy embryos all the time. Why aren’t conservatives after them?

Read more:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.689ac414752a

The fact that there are inconsistencies in their argument (as there are on the pro-choice side as well) does not take away their sincerity or right to be heard.

wolfsgirl · May 19, 2019

Bucky said:
the same as if a minor went to the hospital. actually you can be 18 and older and still be billed on your parents insurance.

When My child goes to the hospital they are signed in under their name, the insurance claims are filed under their name and ss# as a dependent on my insurance policy.

Fetal surgery is considered a surgery on the woman, it is filed under he name and ss# on her insurance policy.

calamity · May 19, 2019

Jack Hays said:
The fact that there are inconsistencies in their argument (as there are on the pro-choice side as well) does not take away their sincerity or right to be heard.

When their key argument to defend the draconian abortion laws in Alabama and Georgia and other states is the intellectually dishonest assertion that late term abortion is a voluntary act available to anyone on demand in abortion legal states, it certainly does take away from their sincerity.

Jack Hays · May 19, 2019

calamity said:
When their key argument to defend the draconian abortion laws in Alabama and Georgia and other states is the intellectually dishonest assertion that late term abortion is a voluntary act available to anyone on demand in abortion legal states, it certainly does take away from their sincerity.

Nope. Their basic position is that abortion is murder, so they're under no obligation to protect it anywhere.

Scrabaholic · May 19, 2019

Bucky said:
It is amazing though a fetus inside the womb can be a patient in the hospital. Have surgery in the womb, yet is not considered a human. Completely absurd.

It's a UTERUS. Whose name is the chart in?

calamity · May 19, 2019

Jack Hays said:
Nope. Their basic position is that abortion is murder, so they're under no obligation to protect it anywhere.

But, they know that their argument against first trimester abortions is bull, so they lie and say it's about saving the 8 month old fetuses. Never mind that no one aborts those "voluntarily."

Jack Hays · May 19, 2019

calamity said:
But, they know that their argument against first trimester abortions is bull, so they lie and say it's about saving the 8 month old fetuses. Never mind that no one aborts those "voluntarily."

No. They certainly do not "know that their argument against first trimester abortions is bull." Their absolute belief in the justice of their cause is why it has remained so durable over the decades.

calamity · May 20, 2019

Jack Hays said:
No. They certainly do not "know that their argument against first trimester abortions is bull." Their absolute belief in the justice of their cause is why it has remained so durable over the decades.

Not true. They anthropomorphize the zygotes, embryos and early development, first trimester fetuses for a reason, Jack.

Jack Hays · May 20, 2019

calamity said:
Not true. They anthropomorphize the zygotes, embryos and early development, first trimester fetuses for a reason, Jack.

They do not "anthropomorphize" because they don't have to. As far as they're concerned human life begins at conception.

Scrabaholic · May 20, 2019

Jack Hays said:
They do not "anthropomorphize" because they don't have to. As far as they're concerned human life begins at conception.

Human life began many millenia ago. Yes, a new life begins at FERTILIZATION. That doesn't mean the woman has to gestate it.

calamity · May 20, 2019

Jack Hays said:
They do not "anthropomorphize" because they don't have to. As far as they're concerned human life begins at conception.

an·thro·po·mor·phize
/ˌanTHrəpəˈmôrˌfīz/
verb
attribute human characteristics or behavior to...

Which is exactly what they do to a clump of cells: turn them into images of a baby suckling on a titty.

Why else do you believe they call the ZEF a baby, child, etc? Also, the whole misnomer of calling abortion murder, slaughter, etc. are also acts of anthropomorphizing it.

Jack Hays · May 20, 2019

Scrabaholic said:
Human life began many millenia ago. Yes, a new life begins at FERTILIZATION. That doesn't mean the woman has to gestate it.

And that is the point of contention. Please keep in mind that I am pro-choice. Your version of the pro-life argument is not their version.

Jack Hays · May 20, 2019

calamity said:
an·thro·po·mor·phize
/ˌanTHrəpəˈmôrˌfīz/
verb
attribute human characteristics or behavior to...

Which is exactly what they do to a clump of cells: turn them into images of a baby suckling on a titty.

Why else do you believe they call the ZEF a baby, child, etc? Also, the whole misnomer of calling abortion murder, slaughter, etc. are also acts of anthropomorphizing it.

That is the point of contention. The rejoinder is that one does not need to "attribute human characteristics or behavior" to a human being.

calamity · May 20, 2019

Jack Hays said:
That is the point of contention. The rejoinder is that one does not need to "attribute human characteristics or behavior" to a human being.

It's a human fetus--and, barley that; at six weeks it's more likely a zygote/embryo in that stage of development--not a human "being."

See what I mean about anthropomorphizing? You just did it yourself to try winning a losing argument.

Yes, Anti-Aborts are Crazy

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