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Yes, Anti-Aborts are Crazy

<alt>doxygen said:
I don't think kicking hornets nests is very smart, but we'll see what happens.
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The story is well told in the link I posted at #243. A right established on a single SCOTUS decision can be undone by another single SCOTUS decision. Pro-choice advocates could have achieved a sounder basis, although not such rapid success, by following a more democratic path through state legislatures.
 
Jack Hays said:
The story is well told in the link I posted at #243. A right established on a single SCOTUS decision can be undone by another single SCOTUS decision. Pro-choice advocates could have achieved a sounder basis, although not such rapid success, by following a more democratic path through state legislatures.
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And my point is that doing something "because you can" isn't always smart.
 
Jack Hays said:
Pro-lifers have invested decades of effort to get to this point. I'm sure they will proceed.
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That will be amusing in a sick way.

Overreach generates blowback, and Roberts may not want his name on this absurdity.

You can't give a zef rights without taking rights from women.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
That will be amusing in a sick way.

Overreach generates blowback, and Roberts may not want his name on this absurdity.
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All they have to do is return the issue to the states. That can be presented as wise statecraft.
 
Jack Hays said:
All they have to do is return the issue to the states. That can be presented as wise statecraft.
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And then women in GA who get an abortion will get 99 years, and Alabama will be able to bring the force of the state out to defend the life of every fertilized ovum.

End result - we all see just where the Republican party wants to go with this. I think it's a dumb move, but they are obviously blinded by a black/white moral sense.

The Republicans got in bed with the religious right for votes. Reagan kept them at arms length, but this guy saw the danger:
Barry Goldwater on Evangelicals
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are NOT using their religious clout with WISDOM. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."[1]
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<alt>doxygen said:
And then women in GA who get an abortion will get 99 years, and Alabama will be able to bring the force of the state out to defend the life of every fertilized ovum.

End result - we all see just where the Republican party wants to go with this. I think it's a dumb move, but they are obviously blinded by a black/white moral sense.

The Republicans got in bed with the religious right for votes. Reagan kept them at arms length, but this guy saw the danger:
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Abortion availability would be governed more or less along red state/blue state lines, and the issue would be less polarizing at the national level.
 
Jack Hays said:
Abortion availability would be governed more or less along red state/blue state lines, and the issue would be less polarizing at the national level.
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This isn't just about abortion, it's about sex and pregnancy. The Ohio bill would ban many forms of birth control, including the Pill. These states are regulating sex and pregnancy. This is the American Taliban.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
This isn't just about abortion, it's about sex and pregnancy. The Ohio bill would ban many forms of birth control, including the Pill. These states are regulating sex and pregnancy. This is the American Taliban.
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Those are political issues to be fought politically.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
This isn't just about abortion, it's about sex and pregnancy. The Ohio bill would ban many forms of birth control, including the Pill. These states are regulating sex and pregnancy. This is the American Taliban.
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TalibornAgains, as we have been saying for years, while apologists clamored, "It ain't so!"
 
calamity said:
TalibornAgains, as we have been saying for years, while apologists clamored, "It ain't so!"
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The Taliban had guys that would drive around in black SUV's tasked with Promoting Virtue and Preventing Vice. These so-called Christians aren't far removed from that at all. Goldwater was right - they can't be bargained with.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
And then women in GA who get an abortion will get 99 years, and Alabama will be able to bring the force of the state out to defend the life of every fertilized ovum.

End result - we all see just where the Republican party wants to go with this. I think it's a dumb move, but they are obviously blinded by a black/white moral sense.

The Republicans got in bed with the religious right for votes. Reagan kept them at arms length, but this guy saw the danger:
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I agree , the religious right is trying to force their religious view of abortion on all.

This country though is comprised of many religion and secular persons and one religions dogma should not interfere when another religion.

The belief of the religions right is not the belief of the vast majority of the Jewish faith and not those of a large segment of Protestants including my pro choice Protestant Church

In fact the Justices took our beliefs into consideration when deciding Roe.

From Part IX of Roe:

There has always been strong support for the view that life does not begin until live' birth. This was the belief of the Stoics. [Footnote B][56] It appears to be the predominant, though not the unanimous, attitude of the Jewish faith. [Footnote 57]
It may be taken to represent also the position of a large segment of the Protestant community, insofar as that can be ascertained; organized groups that have taken a formal position on the abortion issue have generally regarded abortion as a matter for the conscience of the individual and her family. [Footnote 58]
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In fact we sincerely believe that access to safe legal abortion is a part of our Religious Liberty in the United States.

Good policy allows people of all religions to follow their own faiths and consciences in their own lives. In reproductive health, rights and justice, we define religious liberty as the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family and her faith. The religious beliefs of others should not interfere.
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Read more :

The Moral Case – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
 
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I really like the thread title.


1. I do not understand why they oppose abortion so strongly.

2. Don't they understand that each time an unwanted baby is brought into this world, there is a possibility that s/he will turn out to be a violent criminal or at the least a terrible person in some other respect?

3. Thanks to abortion, there are fewer violent individuals prowling our streets (don't we already have enough violent criminals wreaking havoc 24/7?).

4. Of course, birth control is the best thing since sliced bread, but abortion follows a close No. 2, IMHO.


P.S. A shoutout to an unidentified gentleman. This morning while sweeping up the leaves in the gutter of the street, I came across a condom. Very responsible of him.
 
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minnie616 said:
It seems many pro life people who post on the abortion forum forget that the right to privacy was decided long before Roe v Wade.

They think the 7 out of 9 mostly conservative Justices who helped decide Roe v Wade made up Right to privacy.

They also forget that when Casey V Planned Parenthood was decided and many conservatives were hopeful that Roe would be overturned the best the Conservative justices could give their conservative base was the made up undue burden clause.

Which actually came back to bite Texas conservatives who tried to pass laws requiring all abortion doctors to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital.

Look up :Whole woman’s Health v Hellerstedt


From the following:

Landmark Supreme Court Cases | The Casey Case: Roe Revisited?
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I don't believe in that form of privacy. I think the government has a legal and moral interest to take control of pregnant women and their behavior at certain times. For example, if an alcoholic woman were to become pregnant and didn't want an abortion I think the state should have the ability to suspend that mother's right and force her into a sober house.
 
Bucky said:
I don't believe in that form of privacy. I think the government has a legal and moral interest to take control of pregnant women and their behavior at certain times. For example, if an alcoholic woman were to become pregnant and didn't want an abortion I think the state should have the ability to suspend that mother's right and force her into a sober house.
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Mini is referring the privacy between a woman and her doctor, not her bartender. :roll:
 
It is amazing though a fetus inside the womb can be a patient in the hospital. Have surgery in the womb, yet is not considered a human. Completely absurd.
 
Jack Hays said:
Because they believe life begins at conception and abortion is therefore murder.
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Apparently it begins at conception but ends at delivery because you folks don't give two ****s about kids who are already out of the womb with heartbeats.
Good luck selling your Handmaid's Tale. The polls indicate that 79% of Americans prefer that abortions be safe, legal and RARE.

Your idiotic laws that also attempt to make contraception illegal and border on criminalizing masturbation (aren't sperm also alive?) will probably cause the polls to soon reflect an EIGHTY-FIVE percent pro-choice reality, as more people wake up.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Apparently it begins at conception but ends at delivery because you folks don't give two ****s about kids who are already out of the womb with heartbeats.
Good luck selling your Handmaid's Tale. The polls indicate that 79% of Americans prefer that abortions be safe, legal and RARE.

Your idiotic laws that also attempt to make contraception illegal and border on criminalizing masturbation (aren't sperm also alive?) will probably cause the polls to soon reflect an EIGHTY-FIVE percent pro-choice reality, as more people wake up.
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I'm pro-choice, so you can take your hate elsewhere.
 
Jack Hays said:
Because they believe life begins at conception and abortion is therefore murder.
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Then why don't they care about all of the zygotes that don't implant or miscarry? And those that are risked in IVF?

I have a nephew. The 20 or so fertilized eggs that died before he made it to term need a voice. Stop the wanton SLAUGHTER!
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Then why don't they care about all of the zygotes that don't implant or miscarry? And those that are risked in IVF?

I have a nephew. The 20 or so fertilized eggs that died before he made it to term need a voice. Stop the wanton SLAUGHTER!
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1. Zygotes are pre-conception.
2. Miscarriage is a natural risk.
3. It's not my position to defend.
 
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