• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Abortion - Holocaust against Human Rights

Christianity & Europe

Chezanie said:
If morals are subjective, then why are you making an argument up against the morals I have, if you believe I have a right to have them and that all people’s morals should be respected?

If morality is up to the individual, and it comes from no higher power as a fundamental basis, the world would be in chaos because of peoples differing morals. And the world is in chaos today because of peoples differing morals. If morality is subjective and up to the individual, then peoples morals will constantly clash and contradict each other. All morals cannot be right at once. It is a contradiction.

I won’t bother to answer all your posts, as I do not have that sort of time. But I have this question to ask you: in what world, is an unborn child not human from the very start? What makes the child not human?

…
Click to expand...

world would be in chaos because of peoples differing morals. Yah, from Constantine raising Christianity to an official religion of the Roman Empire, to say, the Reformation - Europe was under the religious/moral sway of Christianity. & yet, it was hardly a Garden of Eden, to coin a phrase. If Christianity was the only religious entry going on in a widespread basis, Why was that? If your argument were valid, wouldn't Christianity's heyday in Europe have been Paradise on Earth? Wouldn't we still be living in that Christian bliss? If it was so great, why did the Reformation break out @ all?

& again, the humanity of the fetus isn't determining anything as far as Roe v. Wade nor abortion in the US are concerned.
 
Re: Life is a human right

Chezanie said:
There seems to be some assumptions going on around about me. I am not anti-semetic. I am not dehumanizing Jews by comparing two examples of dehumanization together. I am comparing history with history and showing how your pro-choice arguements dehumanize humans and justify the killing of humans. That is the same logic and reasoning Hitler used to murder millions of people. He didn’t see Jews as people. You don’t see the unborn as people with rights. See the similarity?

Your justification for killing unborn babies, which you openly admit are alive and are human beings, is their dependency on the mother, and the location inside the mother.

If this is the case, shouldn’t the mother be allowed to kill her two-year-old child, since her child depends on her for survival? A two-year-old cannot take care of itself, neither can a baby that has just been born a few hours. And neither can an unborn child. The unborn is taken care of by the mothers body. Just because that child is inside her body, does not give her rights to kill it. You will have to explain to me very carefully why it gives her rights to kill the perfectly human perfectly alive and perfectly innocent child, soley because it is inside her.

I do hope many of you realize this issue is a lot more complicated than it really sounds. The unborn child is intwined with the mothers feelings more than many of you may realize. It is not like removing a tumor.

And killing another human has never been called a medical procedure. It is disgusting to compare the death of another human being to a mere medical procedure. A medical procedure fails if someone dies during it, and someone always dies during an abortion.

Also, Southwest you are confused with what is morally correct and what is legally right.

Also, my point about the baby being torn up and thrown into a trashcan wasn’t accurate, it wasn’t meant to be. It was a morbid joke to prove the point that the baby has no rights over its own body. Yet according to the pro-choice side, the mother has rights over the body inside her. But why doesn’t the body inside her have rights? You are acting like the baby is in an organ that belongs to her.

By using your logic, I can say that when people have sex, they are morally allowed to kill each other because they are inside each other‘s body.

And before you say that that isn’t consistent because the people can just stop having sex to fix that, the baby will only be inside the mother for nine months. It’ll be fixed if she doesn’t want it inside her. Just give birth instead of letting it be killed.

Which to you seems morally right?

Society is in a sad state if we must convince people that the unborn shouldn’t be killed. When you start slaughtering your own offspring.... you open doors to justify all sorts of other immoral behaviors as well.
Click to expand...

2 year old and the humans you have sex with seem to have more developed minds then a fetus
 
Re: Life is a human right

blarg said:
2 year old and the humans you have sex with seem to have more developed minds then a fetus
Click to expand...

Some fetuses have minds. Just not very highly developed minds.
 
Re: Red herrings.

southwest88 said:
world would be in chaos because of peoples differing morals. Yah, from Constantine raising Christianity to an official religion of the Roman Empire, to say, the Reformation - Europe was under the religious/moral sway of Christianity. & yet, it was hardly a Garden of Eden, to coin a phrase. If Christianity was the only religious entry going on in a widespread basis, Why was that? If your argument were valid, wouldn't Christianity's heyday in Europe have been Paradise on Earth? Wouldn't we still be living in that Christian bliss? If it was so great, why did the Reformation break out @ all?

& again, the humanity of the fetus isn't determining anything as far as Roe v. Wade nor abortion in the US are concerned.
Click to expand...

You realize this whole paragraph is a red herring. We are talking about abortion, not religion. I never once mentioned religion in this thread.

And I never said Christianity didn’t have it’s flaws. All those Christian uprisings you described weren’t done by real Christians who actually believed what the Bible said. That is because they interpreted the morals dictated by the Bible with their own understanding.

(to my knowledge)
 
Re: Life is a human right

blarg said:
2 year old and the humans you have sex with seem to have more developed minds then a fetus
Click to expand...

Someone’s intelligence or lack of does not constitute their right to life.
 
Re: Life is a human right

Wan said:
Some fetuses have minds. Just not very highly developed minds.
Click to expand...

all of are food animals have minds some of which seem more developed then that of a fetus
 
Re: Life is a human right

Chezanie said:
Someone’s intelligence or lack of does not constitute their right to life.
Click to expand...

oh why should it not?
 
Re: Life is a human right

Chezanie said:
Someone’s intelligence or lack of does not constitute their right to life.
Click to expand...

seems like a better thing to go by then species
 
Re: Life is a human right

Because that means someone can judge your intelligence anyway they want to, claim you are stupid, and have you killed on the spot.
 
Re: Life is a human right

Chezanie said:
Because that means someone can judge your intelligence anyway they want to, claim you are stupid, and have you killed on the spot.
Click to expand...

going to have conflict with people who do that whats your point?
 
Re: Life is a human right

Chezanie said:
Because that means someone can judge your intelligence anyway they want to, claim you are stupid, and have you killed on the spot.
Click to expand...

could maybe band together with everyone else who doesn't want to be declared to stupid to live should help with the fight i think we have high numbers
 
Re: Life is a human right

blarg said:
all of are food animals have minds some of which seem more developed then that of a fetus
Click to expand...
The fact we kill animals can be argued to be bad, too.
 
Re: Life is a human right

Wan said:
The fact we kill animals can be argued to be bad, too.
Click to expand...

it can vegans sem a lot less hypocritical if they are pro life


but not going to give up on rights to abortion before i give up on bacon that would be silly
 
Re: Life is a human right

blarg said:
it can vegans sem a lot less hypocritical if they are pro life


but not going to give up on rights to abortion before i give up on bacon that would be silly
Click to expand...

Anyway, the point is that an entity's intelligence (or lack thereof) should not be the basis for determining whether it's OK to take its life, as chezanie pointed out.
 
KAG2020 said:
You play word games and avoid reality. There was a time when the supreme court said that slaves were 3/5 of a person. Guess what, that decision did not change the REALITY that slaves were actually human beings.
Click to expand...

They were counted as 3/5 of a person SOLELY for the purpose of the census and political representation. Good Lord, I, a non American, know more about this than you do.
 
Re: The law has its own logic

Wan said:
In other words, you can't answer my question. It's OK, a lot of people don't know what they are talking about.

Also, Roe v. Wade did not talk about what is special about being a person, as far as I know. But I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Sure I could. But I don't know your familiarity with the subject; absent that, it's best you look @ Roe & the related documentation yourself. The legal definition of person is @ the crux of Roe. But you'll see that, when you get there.

& you have such a winning way with language. I'm sure we'll meet here again.
 
Re: Life is a human right

Chezanie said:
Because that means someone can judge your intelligence anyway they want to, claim you are stupid, and have you killed on the spot.
Click to expand...

if we go with genetics as the basis for a right to life some people might try to kill you because your not closely related enough to them for ther tastes


could get real nasty if we ever start seriously altering are genetics

alter other life forms to be intelligent at around a human level


crete ai

or encounter inteligent life elsewhere in the universe to boot
 
Re: Life is a human right

Wan said:
Anyway, the point is that an entity's intelligence (or lack thereof) should not be the basis for determining whether it's OK to take its life, as chezanie pointed out.
Click to expand...

why not? seems like the best basis for that
 
Re: The law has its own logic

southwest88 said:
Sure I could. But I don't know your familiarity with the subject; absent that, it's best you look @ Roe & the related documentation yourself. The legal definition of person is @ the crux of Roe. But you'll see that, when you get there.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, Roe & Wade determined what constitutes a person. But they did not touch upon why being a person is important. If you are so well-versed in this literature, maybe you can point out passages that establish why being a person is important.
& you have such a winning way with language. I'm sure we'll meet here again.
Click to expand...
Thanks. This was actually quite charming (not being sarcastic).
 
Re: Life is a human right

blarg said:
why not? seems like the best basis for that
Click to expand...

And this is just your own subjective opinion. You realize this, don't you?
 
Re: Life is a human right

blarg said:
if we go with genetics as the basis for a right to life some people might try to kill you because your not closely related enough to them for ther tastes


could get real nasty if we ever start seriously altering are genetics

alter other life forms to be intelligent at around a human level


crete ai

or encounter inteligent life elsewhere in the universe to boot
Click to expand...

She did not mention genetics.
 
Re: Life is a human right

Wan said:
And this is just your own subjective opinion. You realize this, don't you?
Click to expand...

yes but that seems to apply to everyone else


so i guess we need to try and make are opinions appealing to 1 another if we want to persuade 1 another
 
Re: Life is a human right

Wan said:
She did not mention genetics.
Click to expand...

shes hung up on human fetuses being human that's pretty wrapped up in genetics


you seems happy to at least pretend you discriminate against your slightly more distantly related fellow humans
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom