[W:1027] Abortion Semantics: "Unborn Children"

MeThePeople said:

CENSORSHIP IS A TOOL OF TYRANNY
I posted here on 3.29.2019. But when I came back to see what others had posted about this thread and my comment , I noticed that my post had been removed.
This proves that people who support abortion don't want to hear the truth about their irresponsible behavior and how that effects the innocent. They only want sympathy to improve their mood about their poor choices in life. A life they get to enjoy because they werent aborted.
Even the LAW of the land protects guilty people to ensure that no innocent lives are ever harmed in the course of DUE process.
I know that humans in the earliest stages of development DESERVE DUE PROCESS. Not to be processed like a pig in a slaughter house!
SO GO AHEAD AND SENSOR THIS RIGHT AFTER YOU READ IT!

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MeThePeople said:

As the devils advocate ( it's ok, I know you dont accept his existence either) I have to say that you should CONTINUE in your ways of curtailing your 'responsibility' by the furtherence of abortion. Also, there is this topic of killing homosexuals and adulterers. I feel...well WE feel that this is probably the best way to handle the issue as well. You see there is no better remedy than to just eliminate your problem to make things better.
We encourage homosexuality, adultery and abortion because it is your right to be whatever you want, to do whatever you want. Just like it is the right of other people to murder to take care of these issues that they feel plague their way of life.
In fact, 'we' feel it is time to increase efforts to make more of these circumstance happen.
Life is short so get busy people. And like 'we' said before,"Ye shall surely not die, but you will become like him knowing good from evil". And isnt that true. You have discerned good from evil and chosen as you will as gods over your own lives. Outstanding work!
Get to it

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year2late said:

What you will consistently hear me say is the unborn are not persons.

What you will consistently hear me ask is "how do you give personhood to a zygote, embryo, or fetus (the unborn child) without potentially diminishing the rights of the woman".

Calling a fetus an "unborn child" does nothing to change my question.

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maquiscat said:

This really isn't that hard. When something or someone is attached to and receiving from your own body, you have a right to end such. When it is in someone else's body you do not have that right. Being human or not, being already born or not, being an adult or not, none of that matters, because of bodily autonomy.

This is why the father can't abort or force it to term when it is in the mother's body. This is why the mother can't abort or force it to term when it is in a surrogate's body. And that is also why it is important for someone else to terminate the ZEF, or unborn child if you wish, while still in the mother against her wishes. It's not their body.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

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Angel said:

You continue to answer a question with a question, and with a question that has already been answered. Poor form.

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MeThePeople said:

CENSORSHIP IS A TOOL OF TYRANNY
I posted here on 3.29.2019. But when I came back to see what others had posted about this thread and my comment , I noticed that my post had been removed.
This proves that people who support abortion don't want to hear the truth about their irresponsible behavior and how that effects the innocent. They only want sympathy to improve their mood about their poor choices in life. A life they get to enjoy because they werent aborted.
Even the LAW of the land protects guilty people to ensure that no innocent lives are ever harmed in the course of DUE process.
I know that humans in the earliest stages of development DESERVE DUE PROCESS. Not to be processed like a pig in a slaughter house!
SO GO AHEAD AND SENSOR THIS RIGHT AFTER YOU READ IT!

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KevinKohler said:

A fetus is no more a human BEING than a catirpiller is a butterfly.

Human =/= human being.

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KevinKohler said:

Yes. To conflate human cells with human beings, and thereby legally growing them with the rights of thinking, reasoning, self aware beings is nothing short of confused.

Thought experiment (you seem to like these)

In the future, technology will allow us to enhance yourself either genetically, or with cybernetics. Think, eye replacements that have 100× zoom, and infrared spectrum, data bank implants that will allow us photographic memory of specific things, like, legal codes, etc. Consider that we already have mechanical organs and joints. One human life span ago, that was science fiction. 3 human life spans ago, we all read by candle light, road horses, and died from catching a cold.

In such a world, a persons mind fails theme, despite their body being strong. They agreed to donate their body to science, just as people do today. And the experiment is, can we place a full artificial "brain" into a human body, and will it function? Watson, with a human body. And they succeed? Is that a human being?

Flip side, a person like Stephen hawking is born...solid mind, useless body. We remove the mind, and put it inside an artificial body. Is that still a human being?

What say you? And why?

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Lursa said:

You never provided the link or source for the question. It's a direct question...it stands alone, esp. since your own 'question' was merely to distract from the fact that you cant find what I asked for.

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(C)
If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.

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code1211 said:

Is this a description of an abortion or a of a murder using the "When something or someone is attached to and receiving from your own body" standard you present?

VIRGINIA GOVERNOR JUSTIFIES INFANTICIDE – Catholic League
<snip>
“If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
<snip>

This sounds to me like the baby has been separated from the mother.

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code1211 said:

How many caterpillars turn into humans?

It's a trick question. The answer is zero, nada, nothing, zilch, none, never happened, never will.

What is the difference in the DNA between the unborn child and the delivered baby?

What is the difference in the pulse rate of a baby in the minutes before, during and after the delivery?

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Irwin Corey said:

We DON’T want our mothers, sisters, daughters and female friends forced back to the age of dirty back rooms and coat hangers; America and Americans won’t have it. No semantics.<- period!!!

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Angel said:

Oy!

18 U.S. Code SS 1841 - Protection of unborn children | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

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code1211 said:

Perhaps our women should take advantage of the technology available today to avoid the need for those rooms.

"Forced back to the age"?

Who exactly is forcing them to go back in time.

Your signature line is incredibly stupid.

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code1211 said:

Is this a description of an abortion or a of a murder using the "When something or someone is attached to and receiving from your own body" standard you present?

VIRGINIA GOVERNOR JUSTIFIES INFANTICIDE – Catholic League
<snip>
“If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
<snip>

This sounds to me like the baby has been separated from the mother.

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Lursa said:

Why are we repeating this? As I wrote earlier, they are referring to other sections that DO apply to persons, human beings. And using those statutes. They are not claiming the unborn is a human being. They are using the statutes to apply to the unborn as if they were human beings...in order to get the punishment they desire. No one says this is a Constitutional law...there are many on the books that go unchallenged, esp. when society in general approves of the law.

I asked earlier if you understood the distinction. It seems you do not.

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maquiscat said:

Well first, biased source. Anything they say with regards to abortion I am going to take with a grain of salt. For that matter, that kind of quote sound like one taken out of context where he might have been talking about an infant that has died during child birth or maybe would need NICU or other artificial means to survive. That is a whole different issue than abortion. Given a complete lack of reference, and Catholic League's history and reputation, I'm not trusting that article.

That said, once in labor, the child is coming out. To initiate an abortion at that point is actually more trauma to the woman's body than the birth alone. Mind you that is trying an abortion on top of labor and delivery. Once the child is out and the cord is cut, she no longer has a bodily autonomy claim. Even at the point that it is out but the cord is attached, her only right is to have it unattached, even if cutting the cord would kill the baby (unlikely as that may be). Again, her bodily autonomy is only in effect when the offspring is attached to her body

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Angel said:

And as I asked you before, where do you see the terms "as if" or "like"? This section of the law states that anyone deliberately killing an "unborn chold" is killing "a human being" and will be prosecuted for murder.

The misunderstanding is all yours. Look to it.

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Lursa said:

Let's see that passage or quote in the law(s) you linked to.

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(C)
If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.

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code1211 said:

The question to him was in regard to third trimester abortions.

His answer was apparently addressing fourth trimester abortions.

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Angel said:

For the fourth time, here it is:

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Scrabaholic said:

There is no such thing as a fourth trimester abortion. Good grief.

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code1211 said:

Tell that to the Governor of Virginia.

In which Trimester is the born baby, made comfortable outside the womb waiting on the decision of the mother and the doctor(s)?

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code1211 said:

Tell that to the Governor of Virginia.

In which Trimester is the born baby, made comfortable outside the womb waiting on the decision of the mother and the doctor(s)?

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When a fetus or newborn is diagnosed with a life-threatening condition, no matter how early or late in the pregnancy, it is a loss that parents grieve.

Parents imagine their child's future from the moment they find out they're expecting. By a first prenatal doctor visit, parents may have countless plans for their baby. Now different plans must be made. For this reason, palliative care may be recommended before, during, and after delivery.

Palliative care is recommended for newborns who:

Are born at extremely low birth weight (i.e. a pound or less)
Are born before 23 weeks of gestation
Are born with a lethal abnormality or malformation
Will experience more burden than benefit from further treatments for their condition


Palliative care can begin as soon as a diagnosis is made, even if it's during pregnancy.
If a baby or fetus has a life-threatening condition, doctors usually will offer parents a set of options.
Palliative care providers help parents make and cope with these decisions.

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