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[W:560] Abortion 101

prometeus said:
Not at all. The tripe you post is there for anyone to read and clearly no one has praised it.

No, you presented tripe and in typical uneducated fashion you can not support it.
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Your opinion, as I said, is duly noted.
 
Lursa said:
I know, right? lol

That's why I gave him the definition for 'axiomatic', in order to try and cut to the chase in the argument...and so then he tries to pull the same thing again with 'self-evident.' It only gives us all one more chance to prove he's wrong...demonstrably....and dishonest...when he pulls that.
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I think it is self evident that Angel cannot back up his claims
 
Angel said:
No, I know what my moral argument is about; you don't, apparently. You keep posting talking points from the political conversation on abortion. These have nothing to do with my argument.
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Your so called moral argument is not moral at all.

:
 
prometeus said:
No, it is a fact that your ignorant denials do not change reality and you still can not support the tripe you post.
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Has anyone else noted when faced with the fact that his claims are just opinions, Angel states that this fact is just an opinion?
I mean this is some serious through the looking glass stuff here.
 
Angel said:
Make your argument for this claim.
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Access to birth Control and/or abortion is a moral good.
When women /couples are able to choose their own futures and decide if and when they’re ready to start a family it is a moral good
It is a moral good for families and a moral good for society as a whole.
 
Angel said:
You seem to believe that law settles moral questions. This is a category error.
I've answered your second question already.
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Nope...when I ask a question that starts with 'who says', it has nothing to do with the law...unless you choose to answer that way.


I am asking for the source of your supposed moral argument, that all human life is entitled to a right to life. Who says?

(I'm not expecting you to say, 'the police' :roll:)
 
Angel said:
Morality is morality whether subjective, objective or interjective.
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beyond an individual its always subjective hence your OP complete fails and has been destroyed by facts and multiple posters for the factually wrong nonsense it is
 
minnie616 said:
Access to birth Control and/or abortion is a moral good.
When women /couples are able to choose their own futures and decide if and when they’re ready to start a family it is a moral good
It is a moral good for families and a moral good for society as a whole.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Minnie. When you look at it from a societal point of view, morally, "for the good of society," abortion has only positive effects on society.

I am not aware of any negative effects of abortion on society.
 
Lursa said:
Nope...when I ask a question that starts with 'who says', it has nothing to do with the law...unless you choose to answer that way.


I am asking for the source of your supposed moral argument, that all human life is entitled to a right to life. Who says?

(I'm not expecting you to say, 'the police' :roll:)
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The right to life is a self-evident truth. End of story.
Here's another link you won't open and read:
1.2 Self-evidence
A self-evident proposition is one of which a clear intuition is sufficient justification for believing it, and for believing it on the basis of that intuition.
Intuitionism in Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
 
Angel said:
The right to life is a self-evident truth. End of story.
Here's another link you won't open and read:
1.2 Self-evidence
A self-evident proposition is one of which a clear intuition is sufficient justification for believing it, and for believing it on the basis of that intuition.
Intuitionism in Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
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I have a dictionary and I know the definition of it.

Now please apply it and answer the question: "how is it self-evident that all human life is entitled to a right to life?"

I gave you examples of how that statement is indeed...NOT self-evident. If it was, all people would agree that the unborn are entitled to a right to life. And there isnt remotely a consensus on that at all.
 
Lursa said:
I have a dictionary and I know the definition of it.

Now please apply it and answer the question: "how is it self-evident that all human life is entitled to a right to life?"

I gave you examples of how that statement is indeed...NOT self-evident. If it was, all people would agree that the unborn are entitled to a right to life. And there isnt remotely a consensus on that at all.
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You are confusing agreement on the right to life with agreement on whether the unborn is entitled to the right to life.
 
Angel said:
You are confusing agreement on the right to life with agreement on whether the unborn is entitled to the right to life.
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No I'm not, because you are including the unborn in that statement.

You are insisting that the unborn are entitled to a right to life based on the fact that they are a 'human life,' correct?

So my question stands: "how is it self-evident that all human life is entitled to a right to life?"
 
Lursa said:
No I'm not, because you are including the unborn in that statement.

You are insisting that the unborn are entitled to a right to life based on the fact that they are a 'human life,' correct?

So my question stands: "how is it self-evident that all human life is entitled to a right to life?"
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The unborn is included in my argument, not in the statement of principle, and I'm not "insisting" -- you are insisting -- I've presented an argument.
 
minnie616 said:
Access to birth Control and/or abortion is a moral good.
When women /couples are able to choose their own futures and decide if and when they’re ready to start a family it is a moral good
It is a moral good for families and a moral good for society as a whole.
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All of these assertions of moral goods may be defensible, minnie, but they don't rebut my pro-choice/pro-life argument.
 
Angel said:
The right to life is a self-evident truth. End of story.
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I disagree.

The idea of natural rights usually leads back to John Locke.

John Locke said " all men are born equally free" and hold certain " natural rights"...

The key word is born.
 
Angel said:
The unborn is included in my argument, not in the statement of principle, and I'm not "insisting" -- you are insisting -- I've presented an argument.
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So I have not seen your argument supporting your statement. You keep claiming you have supported it...but all you have done is 'proclaim your opinion.'

That is why I keep asking: who says?

Can you or can you not support your opinion with an actual argument? Claiming your opinion on the subject is "self-evident' or 'axiomatic' is the opposite of argument :roll:

"How is it self-evident that all human life is entitled to a right to life?"
 
Angel said:
Not sure what this means in your post, but whether subjective or objective, morality is morality.
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not surprising but your lack of understanding is not my concern.
Fact remains morals are subjective hence your OP complete fails and has been destroyed by facts and multiple posters for the factually wrong nonsense it is. If you disagree then simply post one fact that makes the lies in your OP true. thanks!



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minnie616 said:
I disagree.

The idea of natural rights usually leads back to John Locke.

John Locke said " all men are born equally free" and hold certain " natural rights"...

The key word is born.
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It leads farther back than Locke, and a great many philosophers have weighed in on it.
 
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