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As Soon As The Egg Is Fertalized Its A Life

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DebateChallenge

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As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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So, if I'm reading you right, and I really hope I am, you don't understand the word 'murder', but you choose to use it anyhow.
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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What you've done is subjectively draw a line in the sand and declare "at this point, life begins". I've subjectively drawn the line for life at sperm, therefore if you've ever masturbated before you've committed mass murder. So who's worse, a mass murderer like yourself or a woman who's had an abortion? If someone knocks over a fertilized egg in a test tube at a lab, that must be murder too right?
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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So if I'm understanding you correctly, sentient life begins prior to cellular division?


OM
 
:popcorn2:
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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Define life.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
What you've done is subjectively draw a line in the sand and declare "at this point, life begins". I've subjectively drawn the line for life at sperm, therefore if you've ever masturbated before you've committed mass murder. So who's worse, a mass murderer like yourself or a woman who's had an abortion? If someone knocks over a fertilized egg in a test tube at a lab, that must be murder too right?
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So if I've had a wet dream I've committed murder? If I have sex that does not result in pregnancy I've committed murder? Heck by your standards even if I have sex that does result in pregnancy I've committed murder because not all my sperm have lived and fertilized the egg, only one of many.
 
Omega Man said:
So if I'm understanding you correctly, sentient life begins prior to cellular division?


OM
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As soon as the egg is fertilized.

The point is abortion is wrong altogether no matter when in the pregnancy its done.
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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Is your assertion that it is automatically morally unacceptable to end a human life and there are absolutely no circumstances where it could be justifiable?
 
HonestJoe said:
Is your assertion that it is automatically morally unacceptable to end a human life and there are absolutely no circumstances where it could be justifiable?
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A baby has done nothing wrong. As for an adult who commits a heinous crime I can see justification for them to be executed because they have to be punished for what they did, but a baby, including an unborn baby, is innocent.
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized.

The point is abortion is wrong altogether no matter when in the pregnancy its done.
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What precisely about it being a non-viable fertilized egg makes it wrong?


OM
 
DebateChallenge said:
A baby has done nothing wrong. As for an adult who commits a heinous crime I can see justification for them to be executed because they have to be punished for what they did, but a baby, including an unborn baby, is innocent.
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What about other circumstances? Military and civilian deaths in a “just” war? Killing in self-defence or defence of others from a perceived threat? Active assisted suicide of someone suffering a slow and painful death? Accepting the inevitability of some innocent deaths for general convince or wider economic benefit (e.g. not banning all motor vehicles or tobacco products)? What if the choice is between treating the mothers terminal cancer, which would kill the foetus, or continue with the pregnancy, which would kill the mother?

The point is really that you can’t have a simple all-or-nothing rule. Unfortunately the real world just doesn’t work like that, however much we’d like it to.
 
DebateChallenge said:
So if I've had a wet dream I've committed murder? If I have sex that does not result in pregnancy I've committed murder? Heck by your standards even if I have sex that does result in pregnancy I've committed murder because not all my sperm have lived and fertilized the egg, only one of many.
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That's the danger of arbitrary declarations. According to you accidentally knocking a test tube down with a fertilized egg in it is exactly as bad as suffocating a baby with a pillow moments after he's born. Sound nutty? I thought so too when you said it.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
According to you accidentally knocking a test tube down with a fertilized egg in it is exactly as bad as suffocating a baby with a pillow moments after he's born.
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No that would be a bad analogy since with the test tube example it was an accident, as opposed to suffocating a baby with a pillow on purpose.

Accidentally knocking down a test tube with a fertilized egg in it would be as bad as accidentally hitting a born baby with a car and killing it.
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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Wrong....
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized it's a life. That being said, there is no such thing as getting an abortion "early enough" in the pregnancy. Murder is murder no matter when it's done. Getting an abortion early in the pregnancy is just as bad as getting it late in the pregnancy which is just as bad as killing the baby after its been born.
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So before an egg is fertalised or sperm reaches egg. Neither are alive? Somehow from dead matter comes life? You either do not understand biology or you are making an arbitrary line of where life begins.

That you argue that if it is alive it must be preserved then makes every man who masturbates a murderer and every woman who has a period a killer.
 
DebateChallenge said:
No that would be a bad analogy since with the test tube example it was an accident, as opposed to suffocating a baby with a pillow on purpose.

Accidentally knocking down a test tube with a fertilized egg in it would be as bad as accidentally hitting a born baby with a car and killing it.
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What when it is not an accident but a deliberate choice?

Some anti abortionists argue that life is the important issue here and that life begins a conception. Yet a new IVF incubator sustains multiple embryos of which only one or two at most are used and the rest discarded.
The anti abortionist argument becomes even more hypocritical now in that to keep it they need deny an infertile couple the right to have child because multiple lvfes already past the stage of conception will die. To continue their argument they either admit they are willing to see twenty lives die in order for one to be created or they now start denying the right to even one life to support their ideology of life is sacred.
Woops! Page not found | Planet Innovation

The embryos are continually dividing into cells and expanding and excluding cells and none of that was observable to us because the embryos were inside the incubators,” Genea explained. “Made up of 6 independent chambers Geri maintains an optimal environment during an embryo’s crucial first 5 days,” clarifies reporter Amanda Bennett. “A time-lapse camera featured to each compartment takes a photo every 5 minutes meaning embryos can be monitored without being disturbed.”
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RabidAlpaca said:
That's the danger of arbitrary declarations. According to you accidentally knocking a test tube down with a fertilized egg in it is exactly as bad as suffocating a baby with a pillow moments after he's born. Sound nutty? I thought so too when you said it.
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LMAO, entire fertilization clinics commit mass murder then!

Ah, such limited limited thought processes...how do our schools fail the young so frequently?
 
DebateChallenge said:
A baby has done nothing wrong. As for an adult who commits a heinous crime I can see justification for them to be executed because they have to be punished for what they did, but a baby, including an unborn baby, is innocent.
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The unborn cannot act or even form intent...consciously they are a vacuum. Empty. It's the same 'innocence' as a couch or a flower...nothingness.

Why do you value that emptiness?
 
soylentgreen said:
So before an egg is fertalised or sperm reaches egg. Neither are alive? Somehow from dead matter comes life? You either do not understand biology or you are making an arbitrary line of where life begins.

That you argue that if it is alive it must be preserved then makes every man who masturbates a murderer and every woman who has a period a killer.
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I should've said it better. Once the egg is fertilized it becomes a human life. Before that its not a human life even if it's alive.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I should've said it better. Once the egg is fertilized it becomes a human life. Before that its not a human life even if it's alive.
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So are you going to start a third OP then, reworded, in hopes you'll get answers that support your opinion?

You can keep asking the same question over and over (even incorrectly) and you'll get the same answers.

paraphrased Einstein, "The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
 
Lursa said:
paraphrased Einstein, "The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
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Just like much of the people on this forum, look at the gun control folder for instance.
 
DebateChallenge said:
As soon as the egg is fertilized.

The point is abortion is wrong altogether no matter when in the pregnancy its done.
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My problem with your argument is simple. Most estimates put miscarriages in the range of 25% of conceptions. Many of those prior to the woman realizing she is pregnant.

So if God is so against abortions, why does he do so many of them?
 
I am pro-choice, and sometimes even pro-abortion.

As I have stated here before, my position is based on when I consider someone a "person". I am talking about the moral definition, not the legal definition (which has already been settled). What is it about you that makes me value your life? What is it about you that makes me care what happens to you or that your rights are protected?

Is it that you are alive? No. Is it that you have a beating heart? No. Is it that your DNA is similar to mine? No? Is that you are carbon-based or that your body contains blood? No and no.

What makes you a person to me is that you have a mind. You are an aware, sentient being. THAT is what makes you a person to me. Without a mind you are no more a person to me than a rock, or a flower, or a bacteria, or an embryo.

The overwhelming majority of abortions happen before the fetus has a sufficiently developed enough brain for a mind to emerge. So I have zero problems with aborting at that stage, whether the embryo is in a woman OR in a test tube.

Things change for me in the third trimester. At some point in the third trimester it seems apparent to me that the fetus' brain develops to the point of a mind emerging. IMO the fetus is a person, morally speaking, at that point and is deserving of protections. But when abortion DOES legally happen in the third trimester there is typically a medical reason for it and in that case it is a matter of triage.
 
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