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How Many Abortions Does "God" Perform????

I know there are many hours left, but I'm going to go ahead and award this thread as most absurd of the day. It would have won the week without so many Smollett posts.
 
Dragonfly said:
All fine and good. Live by whatever religious law/dogma you wish.
Just don't try to force others to live under your religious beliefs.
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It is because of religion, that we have come to believe such universal principles. You may say that killing someone who is 20 years old is murder. However, you would not say the same thing about a baby in the womb? I thought it was the rule of secularist/humanist to apply human rights as universally as possible. It is quite odd to me, that among all principles, murder should be something both religious and secularists could agree on.
"Choice" allows for all folks (religious or not) to live their life according to their beliefs. Period.
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But this is like someone who tweets "**** my boss" on the job. He has the choice to make it, but he has to deal with the consequences thereof. the argument "you have a right to choice" is really nonsensical. No one says you don't have a right to choice. Everyone is 'pro-choice'. The thing is, you are against consequences for these choices. You're anti-consequences is your real philosophy. Choice is just a buzzword that doesn't always apply consistently in left-wing politics.
I would assume you'd fight tooth and nail to not have many Islamic/Sharia laws implemented into our society. Right?
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If they try to force it illegally, sure. I think the 2 new muslim reps who were elected recently were elected in majority-muslim communities(correct me if I'm wrong there), which you know....if their community is majority muslim, then of course I would expect them to govern their own district/town in a way that's consistent with their beliefs and principles. In the same way christians have governed their towns where they are a majority for hundreds of years now. That's just how it is. I don't see how that's unfair. In england, for example, you already see muslim communities governing themselves, and shutting down LGBT education in their muslim-majority schools. That's how it is, it's their right to govern as a majority.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-47040451
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Good point. Illegal is a frame of reference however. abortion may not be murder in the 'secular' world, because the secular world simply has to cross its arms and say it isn't so. Religiously and spiritually, however, it doesn't work like that. Look at catholic or jewish law, for instance. Yes, most christian countries are secular, as in the west, but many people still follow the faiths. When I say abortion is murder, I'm obviously not referring to secular law, which is bound by the horrible RvW decision. When I or any religious person says abortion is murder, we're obviously referring to moral law, as defined by the bible. We find secular authority, on this issue, to be quite a bit less merciful than religious law here.
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There is nowhere in the Bible saying that abortion is murder. And not one single verse saying a woman is forbidden from terminating her pregnancy.
 
While I literally rolled my eyes when I saw this thread....

I also literally roll my eyes when someone believes their belief in God is a reason for me to do or not do anything.
 
Liberals freak out at a MAGA hat, but are fine with chopping up a baby, SMFH.
 
Cynical said:
Here is a theological answer: This world was not meant to be perfect and bad/sad things happen. God is the author of life. Not a single life lost here in this world is ever lost to God.
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There is no god. Most assuredly not an Abrahamic god.
 
year2late said:
While I literally rolled my eyes when I saw this thread....

I also literally roll my eyes when someone believes their belief in God is a reason for me to do or not do anything.
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Sometimes one most reach out for the absurd to make a point.
 
Elvira said:
For some strange reason, your post got glossed right over...let's bring it to the forefront again...maybe the OP will read it this time...probably not...:2razz:
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I glossed over nothing.

Her post was a bunch of reasons why a pregnancy might end in miscarriage. All things god could "fix".

Religious folks can't have it both ways. God can't be responsible for everything, but not some things that just seem ugly.

And don't pull the "devil" nonsense, because gods is responsible for the devil too.
 
Dragonfly said:
I glossed over nothing.

Her post was a bunch of reasons why a pregnancy might end in miscarriage. All things god could "fix".

Religious folks can't have it both ways. God can't be responsible for everything, but not some things that just seem ugly.

And don't pull the "devil" nonsense, because gods is responsible for the devil too.
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I have never made that claim so your argument is moot...and no, God is not responsible for the Devil...he made himself by becoming the father of the lie...Jehovah created a perfect angel creature with free will, just like the rest of us...what we do with that free will is on us, not God...the Bible makes that perfectly clear...
 
Scrabaholic said:
There is nowhere in the Bible saying that abortion is murder. And not one single verse saying a woman is forbidden from terminating her pregnancy.
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"do not murder"

I understand why it would be easy to miss.
 
Elvira said:
I have never made that claim so your argument is moot...and no, God is not responsible for the Devil...he made himself by becoming the father of the lie...Jehovah created a perfect angel creature with free will, just like the rest of us...what we do with that free will is on us, not God...the Bible makes that perfectly clear...
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God had a son, so he is anti abortion.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Actually, I am talking legally.
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Well. Sorry. I'm not talking legally. Never was, unless I specified otherwise.

Let me give you the opposite example. What if a soldier is in a battle, and in the heat of fire, he gets an order from the president "to cease fire! even if it costs him his life!" Well. The soldier, justifiably fearing death, fires back and kills the people attacking him. Legally, that MAY be considered murder, since he disobeyed his president's orders, it was not legal for him to fire back and kill the attackers. (one could argue if it was even a legal order but, that's not an issue we're taking into account in this example). Secular law, depending on the judge, may say that it was murder in that instance. Religiously, it was not. As a soldier in a heavy fire situation, it was entirely self defense and was only trying to save himself. Whether or not he disobeyed the president's orders is immaterial in regard to what is biblically considered murder. Therefore, I would never call this soldier a murder, regardless of what a court martial or secular court would say about his priorities to the president.

It is for this reason, that I realize, that secular law does not(and rarely does) meet the gold standard. Injustices happen every day, under secular laws and secular courts, but the law of God is always perfect justice, whether it's meeted out in this world, or in the next world.
 
it seems this thread's OP is talking about the moral issue of abortion since it's about God...
 
Scrabaholic said:
That's your prerogative. I don't care what your personal view is as long as you aren't trying to make it illegal.
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Except, I am. You who are so enlightened, tell me....under what basis is it enlightened to have a less universal view of human life than the bible? The bible has such a universal view as to include the unborn. You want to limit that and say "that's not a life, that's just cells". That seems like such a step backward to me. Why should you be more primitive than people 3000 years ago? Philosophers of modernity told us we'd be well passed this point by now.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Except, I am. You who are so enlightened, tell me....under what basis is it enlightened to have a less universal view of human life than the bible? The bible has such a universal view as to include the unborn. You want to limit that and say "that's not a life, that's just cells". That seems like such a step backward to me. Why should you be more primitive than people 3000 years ago? Philosophers of modernity told us we'd be well passed this point by now.
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Jeremiah 1:5
4The word of the LORD came to me, saying: 5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart and appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
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God is claiming that he forms us in the womb, it seems. That verse is used to object to abortion quite frequently, so bringing up miscarriage must also be appropriate.

FWiW, I don't buy either argument. The useful thing to note here is how common miscarriage is. It happens all the time, and I don't see many people upset about it or trying to make laws in order to prevent it.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Jeremiah 1:5


God is claiming that he forms us in the womb, it seems. That verse is used to object to abortion quite frequently, so bringing up miscarriage must also be appropriate.

FWiW, I don't buy either argument. The useful thing to note here is how common miscarriage is. It happens all the time, and I don't see many people upset about it or trying to make laws in order to prevent it.
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Alright well, if you're legitimate, then I can answer this.

When discussing God, it is important to know first how the bible approaches God. It is a very panth-ic(??? weird word there) idea, as opposed to the anthropomorphic, or even diest-ic idea of God. In Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." So the concept of God, as an entity, is something that totally encompasses everything. Sure you could SAY that God 'aborts' but you wouldn't even have to look at a miscarriage for that, you could just look at the fact that some women do abort their fetuses, and that God has created some women to have this spirit to go and abort their babies in the womb. You could also say God creates evil. It's right there, he says it himself. That doesn't mean we're permitted to be evil with each other, at least, not evil as defined by the bible. In fact, I think both you and I can agree completely, that we shouldn't be evil to each other. If Ted Bundy were to Kill Joe Shmo, both you and I would condemn Ted Bundy and agree that he was wrong. Neither one of us would say "oh, well, since God also killed people, that means Ted Bundy is allowed to murder". No, both you and I know that it simply doesn't work like that.

So why can God create evil then? and issue plagues of egypt and darkness and the like? Well, lets look more on the idea of God. He's given may 'attributes' in the bible, but no human idea or attribute could ever encompass god. There are many religions, and christian sects, that think of God as a man, and that's just not the case. The words used to describe god are merely attributes, at most, worded in a way so that we humans can understand them. One of the main attributes though, is that there is God "as the Judge" and God "as the merciful". As God, he judges us all, but also acts mercifully. If say, your brother gets in a car wreck, and dies, you would say that's very evil and you would mourn his loss. However, God knows all secrets. Your brother reaches the heavenly court and he asks "why was I killed?" and the court may say "Because you committed adultery with your brother's wife, a sin worthy of death." He may respond "that was years ago!" and the heavenly court would say "yes, and you were given many years to repent to your brother, and avoid this fate! Your time came, and now you are to be judged for this horrible sin!"

God is allowed to judge in ways humans cant, because God, being all knowing and present in all the world, knows every secret and every sin we do. A person may be able to go to a secular court and deny that he ever killed so-and-so, or cheated on so-and-so, but God always knows and judges accordingly. That's why his judgement is always righteous, while us....well....sometimes our judgements make mistakes.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
"do not murder"

I understand why it would be easy to miss.
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You are taking that out of biblical context, because if you read Exodus, the killing of children is sanctioned by god and genocide is later justified under god too. In addition to that, the word they originally use isn't murder either. Thou shalt not murder is just a modern interpretation of the 6th commandment.

DarkWizard12 said:
Well. Sorry. I'm not talking legally. Never was, unless I specified otherwise.
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The problem with the 6th commandment is that it is originally used as a legal term; illegal killing judged harmful by the community. If had god wanted to specifically condemn abortion, he had the mean to do so and made the choice not to. Instead, what we receive is a commandment concerning whether we boil a lamb in it's mother's own milk or not.


DarkWizard12 said:
Let me give you the opposite example. What if a soldier is in a battle, and in the heat of fire, he gets an order from the president "to cease fire! even if it costs him his life!" Well. The soldier, justifiably fearing death, fires back and kills the people attacking him. Legally, that MAY be considered murder, since he disobeyed his president's orders, it was not legal for him to fire back and kill the attackers. (one could argue if it was even a legal order but, that's not an issue we're taking into account in this example). Secular law, depending on the judge, may say that it was murder in that instance. Religiously, it was not. As a soldier in a heavy fire situation, it was entirely self defense and was only trying to save himself. Whether or not he disobeyed the president's orders is immaterial in regard to what is biblically considered murder. Therefore, I would never call this soldier a murder, regardless of what a court martial or secular court would say about his priorities to the president.
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Technically, this wouldn't be murder but probably manslaughter.

DarkWizard12 said:
It is for this reason, that I realize, that secular law does not(and rarely does) meet the gold standard. Injustices happen every day, under secular laws and secular courts, but the law of God is always perfect justice, whether it's meeted out in this world, or in the next world.
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Perfect determined by whom? The bible is filled with countless stories of aggressive warmongering, genocide, pillaging, plundering, wanton destruction, sexual slavery, rape, misogyny, child abuse, homophobia, unfair laws, cruel and unusual punishment, the punishment of innocents, and brutal chattel slavery. The biblical god authorizes all this.
 
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LeastKnownSaint said:
You are taking that out of biblical context, because if you read Exodus, the killing of children is sanctioned by god and genocide is later justified under god too. In addition to that, the word they originally use isn't murder either. Thou shalt not murder is just a modern interpretation of the 6th commandment.
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"out of biblical context". You know, if murder is to "ILLEGALLY kill", then I would have to ask you then, who did God kill, illegally? Just read the bible, God has his own law that was given 3000 years ago. Secular law on such matters is....new. You would, at the very least, have to apply God's law to say that he "murdered".

And even then, there is a second objection. Does the fact that God killed children mean that WE are allowed to kill children? If we are to believe God's law, then that would seem to be a no. He proved his strength and mastery of all elements of the universe, if it's against his law to murder, then it's against the law, it doesn't matter what he's done or whether you like it or not. He's the master of the universe, not you. You are merely his creation.
 
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