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5th Circuit rules planned parenthood may be defunded, and also that they’re liars

Nope, you dont pay for abortions. Against federal law. Still wrong :roll:

But we all pay for stuff we object to.

I doubt you are in support of keeping the Hyde amendment, but the reality is abortion clinics use federal funds to pay for non abortion services so they can pocket the profits from abortions to do political lobbying, so actually yes tax dollars do go to abortion.




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Cool, why is the unborn more entitled to that than women?

Any law forcing women to remain pregnant against their will violates all those things for women, up to and including significant risk to her life.

Pregnancy under medical supervision is very safe, it’s safer then driving or walking down the street. This “significant risk to her life” is emotional manipulation. Unless you favor Saudi Arabia style laws on driving and needing chaperones as well


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Really?
What was so hard for you to understand that the President spoke of what they allowed to be done, and hence you should make sure they are allowing you to do it if you engage in such behavior?

He said he did not even ask them so how is that "allowing"?
 
I doubt you are in support of keeping the Hyde amendment, but the reality is abortion clinics use federal funds to pay for non abortion services so they can pocket the profits from abortions to do political lobbying, so actually yes tax dollars do go to abortion.


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The reality is...no they dont (eel free to post proof tho). And those facilities save you, by far, in the loss of tax dollars you were just complaining about.

U.S. Taxpayers Save $7 For Every Dollar The Government Spends On Family Planning – ThinkProgress

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/2015/publicly-funded-family-planning-services-united-states
 
The reality is...no they dont (eel free to post proof tho). And those facilities save you, by far, in the loss of tax dollars you were just complaining about.

U.S. Taxpayers Save $7 For Every Dollar The Government Spends On Family*Planning – ThinkProgress

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/2015/publicly-funded-family-planning-services-united-states

We could also starve the MIC to pay for any taxpayer losses to abortion restrictions. Bad argument.

I do not accept as true anything published in Thinkprogress as they are repeatedly wrong and have no editorial standards. Feel free to cite the onion though

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Ask Minnie, she brought it up.

You are not free however to commit kill an innocent baby because of your lack of religious belief so there is that.

Actually , you brought it up post #33.

See what you’ve done is write a word salad trying to weasel out of the idea that babies are human beings, created equal by their creator in his image, and to acknowledge that means you are condoning murder, and so you entire post is simply obfuscating by writing a word salad denying the obvious, that babies are human beings. And if babies are human beings, dependency is irrelevant, the “constitution” is irrelevant, the law in so far as it condones murder is illegitimate. The only thing the separates a baby in the womb from a baby born is a layer of flesh, a layer of flesh does not condone murder. Nothing inherent in women gives them the right to murder.



I replyed letting you know that (unlike you and the Catholic Church ) not all religions/ religious persons believe that an abortion is murder.

In fact the vast majority Jewish people and clergy value the life of the women over the unborn so much so they chose the woman over the unborn until the unborn is at least halfway through the birth canal. Many Christian Protestant religions also value the born woman over the unborn.
 
Pregnancy under medical supervision is very safe, it’s safer then driving or walking down the street. This “significant risk to her life” is emotional manipulation. Unless you favor Saudi Arabia style laws on driving and needing chaperones as well


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And yet, about 1000/yr die in the US. And it's not predictable. Another 86,000 nearly do (stroke, kidney failure, aneurysm, pre-eclampsia, etc). And come away with permanent disabilities or health damage)

It's a very significant risk. Every single pregnancy carries the risk of death.

And it's no more 'emotional manipulation' that pleading on behalf of 'innocent babies' in the womb.

You have not yet explained why one is more imporant to you...the unborn...than women.

If it's just the numbers, it's dehumanizing.

I value quality of life, not quantity. There is no moral justification for use of govt force to make women remain pregnant against their wills. The govt cannot control the health/life of the woman during pregnancy.
 
Pregnancy under medical supervision is very safe, it’s safer then driving or walking down the street. This “significant risk to her life” is emotional manipulation. Unless you favor Saudi Arabia style laws on driving and needing chaperones as well


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LOL What a baldfaced liar you are. God will punish you in the afterlife for that zinger.

For women in the United States, the lifetime risk of dying from a pregnancy-related cause has increased 50 percent over the last 15 years, according to a new report.

Women who are 15 years old in 2014 face a lifetime risk of dying of 1 in 2,400, up from 1 in 3,700 for women who were 15 in the year 2000, according to the report from the charity organization Save the Children.

https://www.livescience.com/45370-maternal-death-risk-united-states.html
 
And yet, about 1000/yr die in the US. And it's not predictable. Another 86,000 nearly do (stroke, kidney failure, aneurysm, pre-eclampsia, etc). And come away with permanent disabilities or health damage)

It's a very significant risk. Every single pregnancy carries the risk of death.

And it's no more 'emotional manipulation' that pleading on behalf of 'innocent babies' in the womb.

You have not yet explained why one is more imporant to you...the unborn...than women.

If it's just the numbers, it's dehumanizing.
I value quality of life, not quantity.
There is no moral justification for use of govt force to make women remain pregnant against their wills. The govt cannot control the health/life of the woman during pregnancy.

Well that’s some eugenicist stuff if I’ve ever heard it


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We could also starve the MIC to pay for any taxpayer losses to abortion restrictions. Bad argument.

I do not accept as true anything published in Thinkprogress as they are repeatedly wrong and have no editorial standards. Feel free to cite the onion though

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I dont know what MIC is nor understand the rest of your sentence. What 'tax payer losses' and what 'abortion restrictions?'

What about the guttmacher link? And also...how hard is it to understand that the more available birth control is, the fewer abortions there will be? :doh And the fewer unwanted/unaffordable kids born = fewer tax dollars needed to support them in public assistance and foster care?
 
I bunch of people dying is not a population explosion but let’s set that aside.

Your race hustling is very interesting, you want to accuse me of being racist by proclaiming the only reason you care about people is because of their race. Very interesting

The data on abortions displayed on the Worldometers' counter is based on the latest statistics on worldwide abortions published by the World Health Organization (WHO). According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day.

These statics are sobering when you take into account that life on this planet is unsustainable at the rate the population is growing right now as we speak. Imagine just for a moment, and it's only conjecture.....but imagine if all abortions in the world stopped tomorrow, just ended - no more abortions. Our planet is already overpopulated and wouldn't take very long at all for famine and disease to take the lives of millions of people, and we're not even going to imagine the wars that would go on over food.

Now, back to the U.S. statistics. Here's a list reported in 2018 on the number of abortions that were performed between 1980 and 2015. In 2015, more than 638k abortions were done. If they weren't, who would take care of those 638,000 illegitimate and unwanted babies? Who would pay for them to be kept in orphanages or institutions? How long would that be sustainable for our system if every year another 600,000 children were born, children that would be our responsibility and a drain on our economy?

One other thing to take note of, and it's a significant thing. The numbers of legal abortions performed each year has plummeting to half the number abortion first became legal in 1980. That's in part to 'the pill', to organizations like Planned Parenthood and to sex education in our schools. If Mike Pence wants to change all of that and ever gets his way, we're going to be thrust right back into the dark ages prior to 1980 once more and sexual diseases and illegal abortions will rise dramatically.

Statistics:
The following is the number of abortions reported to the CDC from selected reporting areas (April 2018 report):
2015: 638,169
2014: 652,639
2013: 644,435
2012: 699,202
2011: 730,322
2010: 765,651
2009: 784,507
2008: 825,564
2007: 827,609
2006: 846,181
2005: 820,151
2000: 857,475
1995: 1,210,883
1990: 1,429,247
1985: 1,328,570
1980: 1,297,606
 
LOL What a baldfaced liar you are. God will punish you in the afterlife for that zinger.



https://www.livescience.com/45370-maternal-death-risk-united-states.html

Its interesting you post this, because In the source it speculates the reason for this jump (by the way, 1 in 2400 is not s high task factor at all. It’s 0.0 percent) is more older women having children, so presumably all of these are wanted pregnancies by women who (unwisely) put off having children, whereas the scenario pro-abortionists like to put out is “well you’re in your 20s, you have your life ahead of you, you don’t have a good job, you need to finish school etc” really though if you want kids you need to have them young to avoid health complications.


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Well that’s some eugenicist stuff if I’ve ever heard it


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And that's all you can respond to there? :lamo :lamo

I think you're in way over your head.

And yes, it's a common phrase. It means that you value the entirety of a life rather than just a physiological functions like a heart beat and breathing which any higher organism does.

If you value basic physiological functions of humans so that we have more stored around the globe instead of a quality of life for them, that's up to you.

But it's a credible belief, and well supported:

Quality of life (QOL) is the general well-being of individuals and societies, outlining negative and positive features of life. It observes life satisfaction, including everything from physical health, family, education, employment, wealth, safety, security to freedom, religious beliefs, and the environment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_life

The Constitution of the World Health Organization (WHO) defines health as "A state of complete physical, mental, and social well-being not merely the absence of disease . . .". It follows that the measurement of health and the effects of health care must include not only an indication of changes in the frequency and severity of diseases but also an estimation of well being and this can be assessed by measuring the improvement in the quality of life related to health care.

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/survey/whoqol-qualityoflife/en/

There's a million more links for this too.
 
The data on abortions displayed on the Worldometers' counter is based on the latest statistics on worldwide abortions published by the World Health Organization (WHO). According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day.

These statics are sobering when you take into account that life on this planet is unsustainable at the rate the population is growing right now as we speak. Imagine just for a moment, and it's only conjecture.....but imagine if all abortions in the world stopped tomorrow, just ended - no more abortions. Our planet is already overpopulated and wouldn't take very long at all for famine and disease to take the lives of millions of people, and we're not even going to imagine the wars that would go on over food.

Now, back to the U.S. statistics. Here's a list reported in 2018 on the number of abortions that were performed between 1980 and 2015. In 2015, more than 638k abortions were done. If they weren't, who would take care of those 638,000 illegitimate and unwanted babies? Who would pay for them to be kept in orphanages or institutions? How long would that be sustainable for our system if every year another 600,000 children were born, children that would be our responsibility and a drain on our economy?

One other thing to take note of, and it's a significant thing. The numbers of legal abortions performed each year has plummeting to half the number abortion first became legal in 1980. That's in part to 'the pill', to organizations like Planned Parenthood and to sex education in our schools. If Mike Pence wants to change all of that and ever gets his way, we're going to be thrust right back into the dark ages prior to 1980 once more and sexual diseases and illegal abortions will rise dramatically.

Statistics:
The following is the number of abortions reported to the CDC from selected reporting areas (April 2018 report):
2015: 638,169
2014: 652,639
2013: 644,435
2012: 699,202
2011: 730,322
2010: 765,651
2009: 784,507
2008: 825,564
2007: 827,609
2006: 846,181
2005: 820,151
2000: 857,475
1995: 1,210,883
1990: 1,429,247
1985: 1,328,570
1980: 1,297,606

Malthus and Erlrich have already been proven wrong. There is no limit to how many people can live on earth under a capitalist society. The movie Soylent Green made the assumption for their dystopia that the global population was 7 billion and the US was 300,000,000

The population argument is false. GMOs, land reclamation, and more efficient water practices will just increase food production.

And if it were truly a crisis then you can’t just trust women to make the right choice, abortion should be mandatory


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Its interesting you post this, because In the source it speculates the reason for this jump (by the way, 1 in 2400 is not s high task factor at all. It’s 0.0 percent) is more older women having children, so presumably all of these are wanted pregnancies by women who (unwisely) put off having children, whereas the scenario pro-abortionists like to put out is “well you’re in your 20s, you have your life ahead of you, you don’t have a good job, you need to finish school etc” really though if you want kids you need to have them young to avoid health complications.


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Regardless of the reasons for the increased risk, you statement that pregnancy is as safe as "crossing the street" is still a LIE. Perhaps you were stating the risk for the father which makes sense since you only care about yourself and have no compassion for women at all. They are not just "vessels" to propagate your genes.
 
They were conservatives...show otherwise. And perhaps you dont understand what 'precedents' are, otherwise you wouldnt continue to write such ignorant, desperate comments labelling justices and decisions out of your angry imagination.

No, you have made the claim, YOU need to show otherwise.

In addition to showing why it’s even relevant

There were many precedents regarding privacy before Roe was decideded.


In fact it would be extremely hard to overturn Roe without also striking down the precedents of right to privacy cases before Roe including cases regarding child rearing.[/B]

The following Surpreme Court decisions would most likely would become dismantled if Roe v Wade were overturned and that is not going to happen.


Weems v. United States (1910)

In a case from the Philippines, the Supreme Court finds that the definition of "cruel and unusual punishment" is not limited to what the authors of the Constitution understood under that concept.

Meyer v. Nebraska (1923)
A case ruling that parents may decide for themselves if and when their children may learn a foreign language, based upon a fundamental liberty interest individuals have in the family unit.

Pierce v. Society of Sisters (1925)

A case deciding that parents may not be forced to send their children to public rather than private schools, based on the idea that, once again, parents have a fundamental liberty in deciding what happens to their children.

Olmstead v. United States (1928)

The court decides that wire tapping is legal, no matter what the reason or motivation, because it is not expressly prohibited in the Constitution. Justice Brandeis' dissent, however, lays the groundwork for future understandings of privacy.

Skinner v. Oklahoma (1942)
An Oklahoma law providing for the sterilization of people found to be "habitual criminals" is struck down, based on idea that all people have a fundamental right to make their own choices about marriage and procreation.

Tileston v. Ullman (1943) & Poe v. Ullman (1961)

The Court refuses to hear a case on Connecticut laws prohibiting the sale of contraceptives because no one can demonstrate they have been harmed. Harlan's dissent in Poe, however, explains why the case should be reviewed and why fundamental privacy interests are at stake.

Griswold v. Connecticut (1965)

Connecticut's laws against distribution of contraceptives and contraceptive information to married couples are struck down, with the Court relying on earlier precedent involving the rights of people to make decisions about their families and procreation as a legitimate sphere of privacy.

Loving v. Virginia (1967)

Virginia law against interracial marriages is struck down, with the Court once again declaring that marriage is a "fundamental civil right" and that decisions in this arena are not those with which the State can interefere unless they have good cause.

Eisenstadt v. Baird (1972)

The right of people to have and know about contraceptives is expanded to unmarried couples, because the right of people to make such decisions exists due not simply to the nature of the marriage relationship. Instead, it is also due to the fact that it is individuals making these decisions, and as such the government has no business making it for them, regardless of their marital status.

Roe v. Wade (1973)

The landmark decision which established that women have a basic right to have an abortion, this was based in many ways upon the earlier decisions above. Through the above cases, the Supreme Court developed the idea that the Constitution protects a person's to privacy, particularly when it comes to matters involving children and procreation.
 
Malthus and Erlrich have already been proven wrong. There is no limit to how many people can live on earth under a capitalist society. The movie Soylent Green made the assumption for their dystopia that the global population was 7 billion and the US was 300,000,000

The population argument is false. GMOs, land reclamation, and more efficient water practices will just increase food production.

And if it were truly a crisis then you can’t just trust women to make the right choice, abortion should be mandatory


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I never cited Malthus and Erlrich. A country cannot reap crops sewn with GMO modified grains when there's no water and no soil in which to grow it in the first place. Global warming is a reality and in 20 to 40 years there will be no soil left to grow crops in, not enough water to sustain the growth if there were and definitely not enough food to feed the world's populations, that's for certain. Developing nations are currently consuming more than their land can provide so we're seeing great famines in parts of the world. An increasing population will make the situation even more dire for millions of people.

The question comes down to one thing. How many people can our planet actually support? Our planet isn't expanding. There is only so much space on this earth, not to mention only so many resources like food, water and energy – that can support a human population. So a growing human population most certainly poses some kind of a threat to the well-being of everyone living on planet Earth
 
I doubt you are in support of keeping the Hyde amendment, but the reality is abortion clinics use federal funds to pay for non abortion services so they can pocket the profits from abortions to do political lobbying, so actually yes tax dollars do go to abortion.




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Planned Parenthood is a non profit organization and as a non profit cannot donate money for political funds.

The Planned Parenthood organization gives no money to political causes.
Private donors give.

From a Fox article:

As a tax-exempt nonprofit, Planned Parenthood is not allowed to donate directly to political causes. But, like hundreds of other nonprofits, it is permitted to establish a political action committee that is committed to its goals.

Planned Parenthood's political arm, the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, works with scores of state, regional and local PACs and affiliates that seek to influence elections on every level. It is funded by private contributions and is not permitted to use the organization's funds even as it advocates for the organization and contributes to candidates sympathetic to its cause.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/planned-parenthood-workers-pacs-donated-25m-to-dems-since-2000
 
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I never cited Malthus and Erlrich. A country cannot reap crops sewn with GMO modified grains when there's no water and no soil in which to grow it in the first place. Global warming is a reality and in 20 to 40 years there will be no soil left to grow crops in, not enough water to sustain the growth if there were and definitely not enough food to feed the world's populations, that's for certain. Developing nations are currently consuming more than their land can provide so we're seeing great famines in parts of the world. An increasing population will make the situation even more dire for millions of people.

The question comes down to one thing. How many people can our planet actually support? Our planet isn't expanding. There is only so much space on this earth, not to mention only so many resources like food, water and energy – that can support a human population. So a growing human population most certainly poses some kind of a threat to the well-being of everyone living on planet Earth

No, famines are not increasing. In fact world hunger is at record lows. And this climate alarmism is the same crap that’s been peddled for thirty years now and never been proven or accurately predicted


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No, famines are not increasing. In fact world hunger is at record lows. And this climate alarmism is the same crap that’s been peddled for thirty years now and never been proven or accurately predicted


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Give me proof that world hunger is at record lows. The most bizarre thing about you conservatives is that accepting climate change will only help the planet while denying it will irreversibly damage it. So, what's the better option? What do you have to lose by denying global warming is real and what do corporations such as mining, fracking and other polluters have to gain by denying global warming is real?
 
Give me proof that world hunger is at record lows. The most bizarre thing about you conservatives is that accepting climate change will only help the planet while denying it will irreversibly damage it. So, what's the better option? What do you have to lose by denying global warming is real and what do corporations such as mining, fracking and other polluters have to gain by denying global warming is real?

You have to prove that any changes, which cannot be quantified nor accurately modeled are in fact damage. Damage is subjective. Also mining, forestry, and oil production are what makes it possible to sustain a large number of humans at low cost and high standards of living. If you stopped mining and fracking billions would be dead one month from now


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You have to prove that any changes, which cannot be quantified nor accurately modeled are in fact damage. Damage is subjective. Also mining, forestry, and oil production are what makes it possible to sustain a large number of humans at low cost and high standards of living. If you stopped mining and fracking billions would be dead one month from now


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The United States survived for many years before fracking began in the 1990's.

Here's a brief video that will only take 36 seconds of you life to watch. If you doubt the data source it's based on data collected by the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, so I think we can trust their data, right? If this data isn't an eye opener for everyone, then clearly they're in denial and that denial is potentially dangerous for our planet.

 
And if it were truly a crisis then you can’t just trust women to make the right choice, abortion should be mandatory

Um. why wouldnt you just make sex illegal then? Or sterilize the men (so much less invasive, risky, & cheaper than the procedure for women)? Oh...then men would be deprived sex, nevermind! :roll:
 
If your are purposefully starving yourself to death, then no. There, I fixed your silly analogy.

What was it you said?...oh yeah, try again.
Analogy doesn't work.
 
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