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Thread: Abortion and Women's Rights

  1. #11
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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I agree SG. There is no Amendment in the Constitution that declares Abortion being a Right.

    And to expand on your point, (I'm trimming this up a bit, but) Roe v Wade, a Texas case, argued before the S.C., was the impetus of a "S.C. Decision", which in turn becomes a "judicial precedent". And that boils down to: In a common law system (any State Court, for example), "judges are obliged" to make their rulings as consistent as reasonably possible with previous judicial decisions on the same subject.

    In order to understand Roe v Wade, one must read the Supreme Court's decision. From that 'decision" women's "RIGHT" TO PRIVACY became the central theme of that decision, which is considered to be inherent to the 14th Amendments, Due Process Clause and "Equal Protection Under the Law Clause".

    BTW, a Judicial Precedent are "usually" derived from "DECISIONS" rendered by a Circuit Appellate Court or the Supreme Court.

    OR: Cases decided by a common law court becomes a precedent, or guideline, for subsequent decisions involving similar disputes. If common law court's decision is disputed and qualifies to be "appealed to a higher court", these lower court rulings can be overturned by a State Supreme court, which can be overturned by an "US Appellate Court". If an Appellate decision ruffles the Supreme Court's feathers, it can overturn an Appellate decision. That's usually the final "precedent" made.
    Exactly. Hence why I never addressed any 'right to abortion' either, but discussed our Constitutional rights.

    Abortion doesnt need to be a right, see: 9th Amendment:

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
    The rights you mentioned are key here tho. Not to mention a right to liberty, which would be violated if laws were implemented to physically stop women from getting abortions and of course there's the issue of bodily sovereignty, which Canada recognizes as the "right to security of the person."

    So anything not called out explicitly in the Constitution is legal (9th A) unless the states can create laws against them "that dont end up violating people's Constitutional rights."
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #12
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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Exactly. Hence why I never addressed any 'right to abortion' either, but discussed our Constitutional rights.

    Abortion doesnt need to be a right, see: 9th Amendment:



    The rights you mentioned are key here tho. Not to mention a right to liberty, which would be violated if laws were implemented to physically stop women from getting abortions and of course there's the issue of bodily sovereignty, which Canada recognizes as the "right to security of the person."

    So anything not called out explicitly in the Constitution is legal (9th A) unless the states can create laws against them "that dont end up violating people's Constitutional rights."
    Right, I didn't want to take my point any further. But for those of us who are regulars (pro-choice) in this forum are clearly aware of the scope of the decision and how it unfolds in various way and is reflected in perhaps four or five Amendments. I know that a few of us have shown the dynamics involved from simply a 14th Amendment perspective, but it's much deeper...as you've stated in your comments above.
    You canít go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. ~~ Anonymous


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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    <<There is no Amendment in the Constitution that declares Abortion being a Right.>>

    True, but irrelevant. You really should study your history of the Constitution a little better. Since the 19th Century, it's been widely accepted that the Constitution contains rights guaranteed by implication. Google the word "penumbra".

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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrodom View Post
    <<There is no Amendment in the Constitution that declares Abortion being a Right.>>

    True, but irrelevant. You really should study your history of the Constitution a little better. Since the 19th Century, it's been widely accepted that the Constitution contains rights guaranteed by implication. Google the word "penumbra".
    We covered this. I mentioned the 9th Amendment.

    Did you have anything else to debate in your thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    [QUOTE=Lursa;1069227849]We covered this. I mentioned the 9th Amendment.

    How is the Ninth Amendment relevant here? Be specific.

    <<Did you have anything else to debate in your thread? >>

    I don't understand the question. My seeder stands as written. Whether anyone wants to "debate" or not is up to them.

  6. #16
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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    [QUOTE=jamesrodom;1069228088]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    We covered this. I mentioned the 9th Amendment.

    How is the Ninth Amendment relevant here? Be specific.

    <<Did you have anything else to debate in your thread? >>

    I don't understand the question. My seeder stands as written. Whether anyone wants to "debate" or not is up to them.
    OK nevermind then. I dont feel like educating you on the 9th amendment...I posted the relevant quote from it in my post. If you dont understand it, that's not up to me.

    And we did debate your OP...you have not done so back. If you dont understand that part, it's also not my concern.
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    This seems less like palliative care and more like a last meal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Parrots of the Caribbean For Abortion!
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    <<OK nevermind then. I dont feel like educating you on the 9th amendment...I posted the relevant quote from it in my post. If you dont understand it, that's not up to me.>>

    Translation: I can't. I figured as much.

    <<And we did debate your OP...you have not done so back. If you dont understand that part, it's also not my concern.>>


    I honestly don't know what you're referring to. I'm new to this particular forum, but I've participated in others for many years. I posted the seeder and some have responded, though almost no one really addressed my remarks directly. That's okay, but do you suppose I'm under some obligation to "do so back"? If I have something to say--and I feel like saying it--I say it. The same is true for everybody.

    It's really that simple.

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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrodom View Post
    Word Salad
    Or in other words you lack any ability to deal with the concept of abortion beyond the narrow borders you wish to confine it to.

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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I agree SG. There is no Amendment in the Constitution that declares Abortion being a Right.

    And to expand on your point, (I'm trimming this up a bit, but) Roe v Wade, a Texas case, argued before the S.C., was the impetus of a "S.C. Decision", which in turn becomes a "judicial precedent". And that boils down to: In a common law system (any State Court, for example), "judges are obliged" to make their rulings as consistent as reasonably possible with previous judicial decisions on the same subject.

    In order to understand Roe v Wade, one must read the Supreme Court's decision. From that 'decision" women's "RIGHT" TO PRIVACY became the central theme of that decision, which is considered to be inherent to the 14th Amendments, Due Process Clause and "Equal Protection Under the Law Clause".

    BTW, a Judicial Precedent are "usually" derived from "DECISIONS" rendered by a Circuit Appellate Court or the Supreme Court.

    OR: Cases decided by a common law court becomes a precedent, or guideline, for subsequent decisions involving similar disputes. If common law court's decision is disputed and qualifies to be "appealed to a higher court", these lower court rulings can be overturned by a State Supreme court, which can be overturned by an "US Appellate Court". If an Appellate decision ruffles the Supreme Court's feathers, it can overturn an Appellate decision. That's usually the final "precedent" made.
    The real point here is that abortion should not even be considered a legal decision . It is not something that should be considered under a criminal act. It is still the case where a woman must seek permission to have an abortion. Which is wrong because it is her right to decide not that of the doctors to give permission for.

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    Re: Abortion and Women's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    Or in other words you lack any ability to deal with the concept of abortion beyond the narrow borders you wish to confine it to.
    No, you just seem to lack the simple ability to be clear.

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