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Lets be honest

You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim

Aaaaand another dodge, LMAO We are waiting for you to back up your factually wrong claims with one fact that makes them true, thanks!
 
Aaaaand another dodge, LMAO We are waiting for you to back up your factually wrong claims with one fact that makes them true, thanks!

FACT: PP gave fetal parts to a buyer who gave them money. This is a SALE.

FACT: A zef is a human. If it is some other species just let me know what it is.


Those are facts. Go ahead ....deny them. It is fun to watch. LOL
 
FACT: PP gave fetal parts to a buyer who gave them money. This is a SALE.

FACT: A zef is a human. If it is some other species just let me know what it is.


Those are facts. Go ahead ....deny them. It is fun to watch. LOL

your words =/= facts

we are waiting simply post proof of your claims, one fact that makes them each true, thanks!
 
your words =/= facts

we are waiting simply post proof of your claims, one fact that makes them each true, thanks!

You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
 
You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim

your words =/= facts

we are waiting simply post proof of your claims, one fact that makes them each true, thanks!
 
your words =/= facts

we are waiting simply post proof of your claims, one fact that makes them each true, thanks!


You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
 
You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!
 
and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!

You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
 
You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim

and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!
 
and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!

ou have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
 
ou have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim

and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!
 
and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!

You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
 
You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim

and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!
 
and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!

You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim
 
You have a claim my facts were debunked. Prove your claim.

I am glad we have established #3 is true. We are left with claim #1. Please prove your claim

and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!
 
and another dodge for all to see LMAO
all you have to do is post ONE fact that makes your failed OP true . . .one, we are waiting, Thanks!

Lets change it up.


Flippity bippity. LOL
 
Propaganda is not a legal argument

FACT: PP gave fetal parts to a buyer who gave them money. This is a SALE.

FACT: A zef is a human. If it is some other species just let me know what it is.

Those are facts. Go ahead ....deny them. It is fun to watch. LOL

No, fetal tissue cannot be sold, by Federal law. There may also be local state laws, but the Federal law overrides the state laws, as far as I know. Planned Parenthood stopped accepting reimbursement of reasonable costs years ago for donated fetal tissue - you can look it up.

In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court never looked @ whether the fetus was a human being or not - that seemed & seems fairly obvious - given time (carrying to term) & if nothing else goes wrong, the fetus will develop into a baby, upon birth. The legal case in Roe turns on the legal definition of a person - a fetus is not a legal person, a legal person is born alive, & continues breathing & growing & developing. An early-term abortion is legal, @ the pregnant woman's discretion. Late-term abortions are rare, & typically are for medical cause - the embryo has died, has massive abnormalities that preclude any chance of a healthy life, etc.
 
Re: Propaganda is not a legal argument

No, fetal tissue cannot be sold, by Federal law. There may also be local state laws, but the Federal law overrides the state laws, as far as I know. Planned Parenthood stopped accepting reimbursement of reasonable costs years ago for donated fetal tissue - you can look it up.

In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court never looked @ whether the fetus was a human being or not - that seemed & seems fairly obvious - given time (carrying to term) & if nothing else goes wrong, the fetus will develop into a baby, upon birth. The legal case in Roe turns on the legal definition of a person - a fetus is not a legal person, a legal person is born alive, & continues breathing & growing & developing. An early-term abortion is legal, @ the pregnant woman's discretion. Late-term abortions are rare, & typically are for medical cause - the embryo has died, has massive abnormalities that preclude any chance of a healthy life, etc.

But they did accept money at one point. My point remains true.

A fetus is still a human. You can not deny that
 
Re: Propaganda is not a legal argument

But they did accept money at one point. My point remains true.

A fetus is still a human. You can not deny that

PP accepted reimbursement of reasonable costs of extracting fetal tissue, which was (& is, TMK) still permitted. In the US, I believe there were only two PP affiliates that accepted reimbursement of costs - & PP stopped that practice years ago. To call that a sale is stretching language beyond its ordinary meaning.

fetus is still a human - The US Supreme Court didn't look @ that, & that's not what Roe v. Wade turns upon. If you hope to convince people to vote or @ least agitate for a change in Roe, you'll have to deal with the legal realities in the Supreme Court, & argue in those terms. You have to make a legal case that the Supreme Court can accept.
 
Re: Propaganda is not a legal argument

PP accepted reimbursement of reasonable costs of extracting fetal tissue, which was (& is, TMK) still permitted. In the US, I believe there were only two PP affiliates that accepted reimbursement of costs - & PP stopped that practice years ago. To call that a sale is stretching language beyond its ordinary meaning.

fetus is still a human - The US Supreme Court didn't look @ that, & that's not what Roe v. Wade turns upon. If you hope to convince people to vote or @ least agitate for a change in Roe, you'll have to deal with the legal realities in the Supreme Court, & argue in those terms. You have to make a legal case that the Supreme Court can accept.

Why lie about it? If you take money for something you have it is a sale. Why deny something so obvious. These semantics cheapen the pro choice argument.

A fetus is a human. That is a fact. Why deny these facts? You can be pro choice and honest at the same time
 
Re: Propaganda is not a legal argument

Why lie about it? If you take money for something you have it is a sale. Why deny something so obvious. These semantics cheapen the pro choice argument.

A fetus is a human. That is a fact. Why deny these facts? You can be pro choice and honest at the same time

So if a person gets free birth control pills from Planned Parenthood....is she actually paying for them because it costs $1.50 to take a bus to get them home?
 
Re: Propaganda is not a legal argument

So if a person gets free birth control pills from Planned Parenthood....is she actually paying for them because it costs $1.50 to take a bus to get them home?

No. She paid the bus in exchange for the bus ride. PP was paid by the buyer for the fetal body parts. Why lie about this?
 
Propaganda is still not a legal argument

Why lie about it? If you take money for something you have it is a sale. Why deny something so obvious. These semantics cheapen the pro choice argument.

A fetus is a human. That is a fact. Why deny these facts? You can be pro choice and honest at the same time

Thanks to the posturing by the so-called Center for Medical Progress:

"The videos attracted widespread media coverage, and after the release of the first video, conservative Congressional lawmakers singled out Planned Parenthood and began to push bills that would strip the organization of federal family planning funding. No such attempts by Congress to cut federal family planning money from Planned Parenthood have become law. Conservative politicians in several states have also used this as an opportunity to cut or attempt to cut family planning funding at the state level.

"Officials in twelve states initiated investigations into claims made by the videos, but none found Planned Parenthood clinics to have sold tissue for profit as alleged by CMP and other anti-abortion groups. An investigation by the United States House of Representatives Oversight and Government Reform Committee found no evidence of wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood. A select committee, the United States House Committee on Energy and Commerce Select Investigative Panel on Planned Parenthood, was formed to further investigate Planned Parenthood. The Republican-controlled Select Investigative Panel released its final report on December 30, 2016, recommending that Planned Parenthood be de-funded. The report was heavily criticized as partisan and inaccurate by Democratic members of the committee, Planned Parenthood, and some news media.

"On January 25, 2016, a Texas grand jury indicted CMP founder David Daleiden and member Sandra Merritt while finding no wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood. The charges against Daleiden and Merritt in Texas were dismissed six months later. On March 28, 2017, Daleiden and Merritt were charged with 15 felonies in the State of California - one for each of the people whom they had filmed without consent, and one for criminal conspiracy to invade privacy. On June 21, 2017, all the invasion of privacy charges (but not that of conspiracy) were dismissed with leave to amend. Soon after, the State of California re-filed amended charges.[1][2] "


"In a less-edited version of the first video, PPFA staff repeatedly state that the organization makes no money from tissue donations, and that the US$30–100 charge only covers procurement costs.[3] PPFA have said they may donate fetal tissue at the request of a patient, but such tissue is never sold.[3][12] At one point in the video, a PPFA staffer states "nobody should be 'selling' tissue," and "that's just not the goal here".[13]

"According to several experts in the field, the money Planned Parenthood received for fetal tissue was too little to make any profit for Planned Parenthood and constituted reasonable compensation for the costs of procurement, as allowed by Federal law. These experts included Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University's and Brigham and Women's Hospital's biorepository; Jim Vaught, president of the International Society for Biological and Environmental Repositories and formerly the deputy director of the National Cancer Institute's Office of Biorepositories and Biospecimen Research; and Carolyn Compton, the chief medical and science officer of Arizona State University's National Biomarkers Development Alliance and a former director of biorepositories and biospecimen research at the National Cancer Institute.[13]

"On October 13, 2015, Planned Parenthood announced it would no longer accept reimbursement for the costs of collecting and shipping fetal tissue to research labs. Citing an "anti-abortion agenda" by some in Congress, Planned Parenthood stated the move was designed to remove a reason for politically motivated attacks.[14][15]"

(My emphasis - more @ the URL - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_2015_undercover_videos_controversy)

Yep, a human fetus will yield a human, if carried to term & nothing untoward happens to affect the health of the woman or the embryo. Why do you belabor that? The Supreme Court bypassed the question altogether, it wasn't @ issue.
 
Re: Propaganda is still not a legal argument

Thanks to the posturing by the so-called Center for Medical Progress:

"The videos attracted widespread media coverage, and after the release of the first video, conservative Congressional lawmakers singled out Planned Parenthood and began to push bills that would strip the organization of federal family planning funding. No such attempts by Congress to cut federal family planning money from Planned Parenthood have become law. Conservative politicians in several states have also used this as an opportunity to cut or attempt to cut family planning funding at the state level.

"Officials in twelve states initiated investigations into claims made by the videos, but none found Planned Parenthood clinics to have sold tissue for profit as alleged by CMP and other anti-abortion groups. An investigation by the United States House of Representatives Oversight and Government Reform Committee found no evidence of wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood. A select committee, the United States House Committee on Energy and Commerce Select Investigative Panel on Planned Parenthood, was formed to further investigate Planned Parenthood. The Republican-controlled Select Investigative Panel released its final report on December 30, 2016, recommending that Planned Parenthood be de-funded. The report was heavily criticized as partisan and inaccurate by Democratic members of the committee, Planned Parenthood, and some news media.

"On January 25, 2016, a Texas grand jury indicted CMP founder David Daleiden and member Sandra Merritt while finding no wrongdoing by Planned Parenthood. The charges against Daleiden and Merritt in Texas were dismissed six months later. On March 28, 2017, Daleiden and Merritt were charged with 15 felonies in the State of California - one for each of the people whom they had filmed without consent, and one for criminal conspiracy to invade privacy. On June 21, 2017, all the invasion of privacy charges (but not that of conspiracy) were dismissed with leave to amend. Soon after, the State of California re-filed amended charges.[1][2] "


"In a less-edited version of the first video, PPFA staff repeatedly state that the organization makes no money from tissue donations, and that the US$30–100 charge only covers procurement costs.[3] PPFA have said they may donate fetal tissue at the request of a patient, but such tissue is never sold.[3][12] At one point in the video, a PPFA staffer states "nobody should be 'selling' tissue," and "that's just not the goal here".[13]

"According to several experts in the field, the money Planned Parenthood received for fetal tissue was too little to make any profit for Planned Parenthood and constituted reasonable compensation for the costs of procurement, as allowed by Federal law. These experts included Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University's and Brigham and Women's Hospital's biorepository; Jim Vaught, president of the International Society for Biological and Environmental Repositories and formerly the deputy director of the National Cancer Institute's Office of Biorepositories and Biospecimen Research; and Carolyn Compton, the chief medical and science officer of Arizona State University's National Biomarkers Development Alliance and a former director of biorepositories and biospecimen research at the National Cancer Institute.[13]

"On October 13, 2015, Planned Parenthood announced it would no longer accept reimbursement for the costs of collecting and shipping fetal tissue to research labs. Citing an "anti-abortion agenda" by some in Congress, Planned Parenthood stated the move was designed to remove a reason for politically motivated attacks.[14][15]"

(My emphasis - more @ the URL - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_2015_undercover_videos_controversy)

Yep, a human fetus will yield a human, if carried to term & nothing untoward happens to affect the health of the woman or the embryo. Why do you belabor that? The Supreme Court bypassed the question altogether, it wasn't @ issue.

Just accept these two statement as true.

PP sold fetal body parts.
An abortion kills a human.


I see hypocrisy in denying these simple truths. You can be pro choice and pro abortion and believe these things to be true.
 
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