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How is Being Anti-Abortion Strict Constitutionalist?

iguanaman said:
It is not a game. It is about protecting the lives of living, breathing human beings from tyranny. Women need to have the freedom to determine what happens to their own bodies.
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What about the man who helped create the life? He gets absolutely no say so. Neither does the life in question.

It's selfish and arrogant to assume the woman should have all the power.
 
jkennedy said:
That is YOUR faith. No one else. Stop claiming that because you believe in superstitions and myths it is acceptable to force women to have children they don't want to have.
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If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Next your going to spout the ol' time favorite of the Left, "If you don't like abortion, don't have one". You people are entirely predictable.
 
Lursa said:
I didnt ask you to believe it, you implied it so I asked you to prove it.

So now you know...there are no negative effects on society from abortion.
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You are in denial if you think problems they face individuals don't mirror problems that society faces. Just like, adidction, abuse, PTSD, other mental disorders,etc. Of course it does.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Actually it does.

Fourth Amendment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

In Roe v. Wade the Court considered that the body of a woman, i.e. her "person," was protected under the Fourth Amendment right to privacy via the due process clause of the 14th Amendment.

In order to prevent a woman from having an abortion, one must in effect "seize" her body by law to forbid the action from occurring. Otherwise she might take action (intentionally falling down stairs, trying to "dig it out" herself, taking "potions," or seeking an illegal abortionist) to abort herself. Then claim it was simply a miscarriage. All these things were being done, under pain of criminal law before Roe v. Wade, and they would continue had that decision not been rendered.

Women have a right to control their bodies. The issue is, when does the growing ZEF become legally (not morally or religiously) a human being worthy of the same Constitutional and legal protections as the mother?

Some argue at inception, others like myself when the fetus has enough traits to grant humanity coupled with viability.
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First, and most importantly, the outcome of Roe is harmful and unjust. Why? The facts of embryology show that the human embryo or fetus (the being whose life is ended in abortion) is a distinct and living human organism at the earliest stages of development. "Human development begins at fertilization when a sperm fuses with an oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote," explains a leading embryology textbook. "This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."



Justice requires that the law protect the equal dignity and basic rights of every member of the human family—irrespective of age, size, ability, dependency, and the desires and decisions of others. This principle of human equality, affirmed in the Declaration of Independence and the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is the moral core of western civilization. But the Roe Court ruled, to the contrary, that a particular class of innocent human beings (the unborn) must be excluded from the protection of the law and allowed to be dismembered and killed at the discretion of others. "The right created by the Supreme Court in Roe," observes University of St. Thomas law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen, "is a constitutional right of some human beings to kill other human beings."
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https://www.mccl.org/single-post/2017/01/20/The-three-fundamental-problems-with-Roe-v-Wade
 
WCH said:
So does your support for abortion stem from your hatred for Christianity or the other way around?
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Ah more of the typical zealot ignorance.
I do not hate certainly not Christianity, but unlike you I abhor the notion that a faith or belief or creed that I do not share be imposed on me so again unlike you I do not hypocritically advocate any rules based on my faith but rather based on what serves society. I live privately by what I believe and again unlike you i do not have to wear it on my sleeves.
 
prometeus said:
Ah more of the typical zealot ignorance.
I do not hate certainly not Christianity, but unlike you I abhor the notion that a faith or belief or creed that I do not share be imposed on me so again unlike you I do not hypocritically advocate any rules based on my faith but rather based on what serves society. I live privately by what I believe and again unlike you i do not have to wear it on my sleeves.
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I'm far from being a zealot. I too live by my personal beliefs.

The difference is what we support publicly.
 
WCH said:
I'm far from being a zealot. I too live by my personal beliefs.

The difference is what we support publicly.
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Secularism if you do not want to live by someone else's beliefes.
 
WCH said:
What about the man who helped create the life? He gets absolutely no say so. Neither does the life in question.

It's selfish and arrogant to assume the woman should have all the power.
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Did the man know this before he had sex with her? Of course he did. Why would he then blame the woman for a choice he already knows she has?

Just like you said:

WCH said:
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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If you dont like the consequences, dont sleep with the woman.
 
WCH said:
You are in denial if you think problems they face individuals don't mirror problems that society faces. Just like, adidction, abuse, PTSD, other mental disorders,etc. Of course it does.
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And all the "unbiased" sources say only a small % of women have long lasting repercussions. Even your own source said few turned to street drugs.

Most women believe that it was the right decision.

It has no overall effect on society anymore than other life decisions for women.
 
Lursa said:
Did the man know this before he had sex with her? Of course he did. Why would he then blame the woman for a choice he already knows she has?

Just like you said:



If you dont like the consequences, dont sleep with the woman.
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Personally, despite the rhetoric of either side, I think Roe-v-Wade is safe and it won't be overturn. Plus... I don't think many of the women squawking about it on the streets have much to worry about regarding pregnancy much less the act that causes it.

womens-march-liberal-fat-ass.png
 
MrMike said:
Personally, despite the rhetoric of either side, I think Roe-v-Wade is safe and it won't be overturn. Plus... I don't think many of the women squawking about it on the streets have much to worry about regarding pregnancy much less the act that causes it.
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Ah...the most common anti-opinion of all on this topic, shaming women.

Easy pickins' eh?
 
prometeus said:
Secularism if you do not want to live by someone else's beliefes.
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I've been what you would call "secular" in my life and I still thought abortion was evil. Now that I have found my faith once more, it's a confirmation.
 
WCH said:
I've been what you would call "secular" in my life and I still thought abortion was evil.
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I have no problem with that.

Now that I have found my faith once more, it's a confirmation.
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And that is fine too as long as you keep it to yourself instead of trying to force it on others.
 
hanger4 said:
Life begins at conception, that's not in question. The question is the definition of person;
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Well, we KNOW for a fact that women are people, by ANY definition. Why can't we just support their right to physical autonomy.

1) a human being regarded as an individual.

Zygote, fetus are just names of development stages of the human life.

The amendments limit the feds and one of those limits is depriving life.
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How retarded does someone have to be to think you can be an "individual" while residing WITHIN and feeding OFF OF and excreting into the BLOODSTREAM of another ACTUAL individual?

I try to have respectful conversations with conservatives but they don't deserve it. They say things like what you wrote here with straight faces and then get butthurt when you tell them they're oblivious to the inherent contradictions between the facts and what they say. Magical thinking, like imagining the fetus is an individual, of all things, is such an integral part of conservative "thinking' that I don't think there is any way to be civil to them. Opinions derived in an absence of reason cannot be changed with reason, and civility demands reason be applied. When you begin your point with a lie, you invite derision and when your lie is intended to justify oppressing women, you invite much more than that.

Fear not, you'll get both from me.
 
D_NATURED said:
Well, we KNOW for a fact that women are people, by ANY definition. Why can't we just support their right to physical autonomy.



How retarded does someone have to be to think you can be an "individual" while residing WITHIN and feeding OFF OF and excreting into the BLOODSTREAM of another ACTUAL individual?

I try to have respectful conversations with conservatives but they don't deserve it. They say things like what you wrote here with straight faces and then get butthurt when you tell them they're oblivious to the inherent contradictions between the facts and what they say. Magical thinking, like imagining the fetus is an individual, of all things, is such an integral part of conservative "thinking' that I don't think there is any way to be civil to them. Opinions derived in an absence of reason cannot be changed with reason, and civility demands reason be applied. When you begin your point with a lie, you invite derision and when your lie is intended to justify oppressing women, you invite much more than that.

Fear not, you'll get both from me.
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:applaud:applaud

This is my take on that:

Before birth, the unborn has no rights that can be separated from the mother (physically, legally, ethically, practically). It's a dependency that truly demonstrates that it is not equal.

They do not have a single right that they can exercise independently.
 
WCH said:
I've been what you would call "secular" in my life and I still thought abortion was evil. Now that I have found my faith once more, it's a confirmation.
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I am curious, if you are so secular, why are you trying so hard the bible and 10 Commandments on public schools? It is not like the kids cannot carry these things in the backpacks or pray as they wish during recess or silently during school hours.....
 
WCH said:
What about the man who helped create the life? He gets absolutely no say so. Neither does the life in question.

It's selfish and arrogant to assume the woman should have all the power.
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Then get yourself a womb. That will show them. Women have always had the power to control their bodies.
 
I would have phrased the question in a more respectful manner, but it is a valid one. As a pro lifer, I have a dilemma, don't I? On one hand, life (hey, we call some speck of something on another planet life) is precious. Otoh, how can we mandate what another can or cannot do with their body? We have an overall mandate not to purposely hurt oneself, euthanasia is still frowned upon...Yet we want to legalize what a woman can do with her body. We could possibly legislate whether a woman is in charge of her own being. What we can't legislate is the mind. When a woman decide to have an abortion, it is her decision, and she will find a way.

So if we care about life, not just the unborn life, but the life of the mother, choice is the answer. The good Lord gave us free will. Let us not forget that.
 
WCH said:
Many have a long history of not doing it well.

Without a man or some Franken-doctor, that womb is useless.
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So now you are an authority on women and their bodies? That is why you think you can control them? Mind your own business and get a life.
 
WCH said:
Many have a long history of not doing it well.

Without a man or some Franken-doctor, that womb is useless.
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I think folks frequently jump to the misogyny conclusion too soon.....but this post wreaks of it.
 
Lovebug said:
I would have phrased the question in a more respectful manner, but it is a valid one. As a pro lifer, I have a dilemma, don't I? On one hand, life (hey, we call some speck of something on another planet life) is precious. Otoh, how can we mandate what another can or cannot do with their body? We have an overall mandate not to purposely hurt oneself, euthanasia is still frowned upon...Yet we want to legalize what a woman can do with her body. We could possibly legislate whether a woman is in charge of her own being. What we can't legislate is the mind. When a woman decide to have an abortion, it is her decision, and she will find a way.

So if we care about life, not just the unborn life, but the life of the mother, choice is the answer. The good Lord gave us free will. Let us not forget that.
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Very nicely written.
 
iguanaman said:
So now you are an authority on women and their bodies? That is why you think you can control them? Mind your own business and get a life.
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LMAO...who has had all the power and control over women throughout history? Including their bodies? And are still attempting it now? Men.

Who puts *most* of the pressure on women to have sex? Men. They, for the most part, initiate it, pressure women, lie and say they love them, force them, etc etc etc.

So women are only 50% to blame for unplanned pregnancies...no more, no less.
 
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