Wan
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Can't argue with that!
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Abortion a good move for many
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Can't argue with that!
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well with failed logic like that theres "really no good reason" for self defense
SOrry your feelings and opinions make no sense and are completely illogical..
No it's really simple
Either human life is a precious thing or it isn't
What makes your life more valuable then mine? What makes my life more valuable then yours? They are either equal in value or they are not. If they aren't equal then there is really nothing other then some semantic philosophy that makes it wrong for me to kill you
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A building is on fire. In it contains 100 embryos and 2 babies. You can save one or the other. Who do you save?
Oh... damn... good point... In all honesty I'd probably save the babies
But same question...a buildings on fire... you can save your baby or somebody else's. Which do you save? Does your choice change the value of the other babies life?
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At least you are honest. Yes I save my own baby. He is more valuable to me
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1.) I agree based on YOUR failed logic it is really simple. based on your logic self defense is no good reason
2.) yes you already said that hence why self defense is not good reason by your logic
3.) please dont use retarded strawmen like this. Who said my life was more valuable than yours? NOBODY
you can defend your failed logic or you cant. Seems you cant and i accepted as much. Again based on your logic theres "really no good reason" for self defense.
Your values are yours and they are subjective they arent universal hence why your logic fails.
My logic might be flawed, but believing that one form of human life is superior to another and that the superior form of human has the right to do as it wishes with the inferior one is the time honored excuse for every enslavement and genocide in human history
"The strong must dominate the weak, and signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature. Only a born weakling would look upon this principle as cruel, and when they do it is merely because they are of a more feeble nature and narrow mind"
Adolf Hitler
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1.) currently it is because its illogical and has no basis in reality or honesty. Hence why i was asking you to better explain because maybe you meant something else or to defended it and give support for it making sense
2.) good lord another completely retarded strawmen. Who here believes that and what does that have to do with abortion?
3.) maybe try staying on topic and addressing things relevant and things actually said.
Do you not believe that an unborn human is an inferior form of human life?
You will never be able to prove that an unborn human is anything other then a form of human life.
So therefore the argument is one of superiority
You can call it illogical all you want Mr. Spock, but can you disprove that this is an argument of superiority?
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1.) when did i say that?!?!?! see there you go making stuff up again.
2.) never stated otherwise. again retarded strawmen like this dont work.
3.) no therefore its dishonesty and a retarded strawman you are making up that isnt working. Like i said try to stick to the topic and things that are actually said and your posts wont fail so bad
4.) dont have to disprove something i never claimed but your statement in discussion is illogical hence your inability to defend it or support it.
Seems you are hoping that failed strawmen and deflections will work, it wont. Now we are waiting for you to support your claim and make it logical. Again based on your logic theres "really no good reason" for self defense.
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Bringing up Hitler in an abortion debate is a sure sign that you have no rational argument.
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The embryos... there are 100 people there as opposed to two... and they are lighter to carry. I could also then save some picture a.lbums
Self preservation and motivated self interest are the reason for self defense.
If you don't claim to be superior to an unborn human then what right do you have to end it's life?
Superiority is the only justification for killing. You are superior to a cow so therefore it is not wrong to kill it
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You just said they were inferior. You save the baby not the embryos even though there are more of them
No I didn't
I said I would choose to save the babies. I never said the embryos were inferior. Just like you choosing to save your own baby does not make somebody else's baby inferior. I would also choose to save the baby over an adult. That doesn't make the adults life inferior.
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Actually it does
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You can bet your ass I would save mine first every time...
Any parent would.
No, it doesn't change the value of the other baby. But here's the thing... value judgements are inherently subjective. My mother thinks my shoe collection is out of control. I think her china sets are out of control! But it didn't stop my Dad from paying to ship roughly 7,000 lbs of dishes every time we moved! They were valuable to *her.*
The very nature of "value" is personal. Which is why the only pregnancy anyone should be concerned about/dictating/legislating/making decisions about is their own.
Your dish remark made me laugh.
To a certain extent I agree with you. A woman's pregnancy is her business, and value is not universal.
However, the statement "it doesn't effect you so mind your business" has been the breeding ground for the biggest atrocities in human history. "Its not you they are enslaving it's the black people. So mind your own business and worry running your own farm, and let other guy worry about how to run his. Besides they aren't exactly human so what does it matter?".
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:rantoff:
It's soooo true, she's a woman possessed, I tell you! Spent a whole lot of my childhood waiting in the car whilst she shopped!
Anyway.
I appreciate your honesty, you've been quite civil. That's rare in the Abortion Forum, so thank you.
I agree with the underlined...I (think) I get where you're coming from.
For me, it's a matter of sentience. There are different stages of development. I won't let a toddler run around the yard the way I would a 4th grader. I wouldn't let my 11 year old daughter play designated driver... or vote...
The vast majority of elective abortions happen in the first trimester.
Ultimately, being born is a privilege.
I didn't have a *right* to my mother's body, organs, lifestyle, etc. That was *her* decision. So many people take for granted "women make babies" -- most do. Yet they forget that woman was not *obligated* to. She doesn't owe the public an explanation at all... and the public isn't entitled to one, either.
I just don't see how anything that goes on **inside** someone else's body is anyones business? Forget Facebook privacy intrusions... What gives anybody the right to comment on someone's decision over what's to be done with their body? I believe in organ donation, but we don't even demand that of corpses.
It's soooo true, she's a woman possessed, I tell you! Spent a whole lot of my childhood waiting in the car whilst she shopped!
Anyway.I appreciate your honesty, you've been quite civil. That's rare in the Abortion Forum, so thank you.
I agree with the underlined...I (think) I get where you're coming from.
For me, it's a matter of sentience. There are different stages of development. I won't let a toddler run around the yard the way I would a 4th grader. I wouldn't let my 11 year old daughter play designated driver... or vote...
The vast majority of elective abortions happen in the first trimester.
Ultimately, being born is a privilege.
I didn't have a *right* to my mother's body, organs, lifestyle, etc. That was *her* decision. So many people take for granted "women make babies" -- most do. Yet they forget that woman was not *obligated* to. She doesn't owe the public an explanation at all... and the public isn't entitled to one, either.
I just don't see how anything that goes on **inside** someone else's body is anyones business? Forget Facebook privacy intrusions... What gives anybody the right to comment on someone's decision over what's to be done with their body? I believe in organ donation, but we don't even demand that of corpses.
Lol
I send you thanks in return for your level of civility as well. Civility is rare on both sides of the aisle.
There are two things that make me pro life.
1. The pro slavery arguments from the civil war era and the modern day pro choice argument are remarkably similar to each other.
- African are not entirely human so therefore they have no humans rights to take away
- Africans are a less developed and inferior form of human life so therefore it is justifiable to treat an African no differently from any other animal
- Africans lack the intelligence and level of awareness that are found in all other forms of human life
- Government has no business telling people how to manage their own property
Do you see a resemblance here?
2. The absolutism of the pro choice argument.
See I'm not 100% sure I'm in the right and if it turns out that I am wrong the biggest concession that I have to make is that I am an overly nosey asshole that needs to mind his own business. That is a concession I can live with
On the other the pro choice argument has to be one of absolute certainty, because the slightest concession, or a yield to even the smallest of facts creates doubt. If there is doubt then there is the possibility that abortion is wrong. If wrong then you have killed a human being which makes you a party to murder on a genocidal level. That is not is easy concession to live with. That is why they dismiss every single argument, resort to name calling, or just flat out ignore you. They can't admit to wrong doing on even the slightest level or the house of cards comes crashing down.
The other problem with this is that when a person believes they are absolutely right they are almost always absolutely wrong. Plus who is ever 100% certain of anything? When was the last time you were 100% certain of something?
So IMHO it is best to error on the side of compassion and humanity. Which is the side the doesn't kill something unless it is absolutely necessary and unavoidable
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What doubt do you have?
We know that a fetus younger that 26 weeks gestation does not have organized brain waves.
It’s brain waves are as flat an unorganized as a brain dead person.
The neural system cannot feel pain either until 26 weeks gestation or later.
15 to 20 percent of all known pregnancies ( where the woman is aware she is pregnant) end in natural miscarriage.
Over 91 percent of abortions take place in the first trimester and 60 percent of those take place younger than 8 weeks.
Since doctors count from the first day of the last period that means the pregnancy was aborted within about 6 weeks of conception.
The woman has barely had time to miss her first period.
Most unplanned pregnancies in the US are birth control failures.
Over 65 percent of US women use artifical birth control consistently.
That does not include the women that cannot get pregnant due to a medical condition or a medical procedure to intentionally keep them from becoming pregnant.
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Abortion a good move for many
Until you die in an unrepentant condition and find yourself at the Judgment.
Until you die in an unrepentant condition and find yourself at the Judgment.
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Wrong. Some murderers and rapists have no value but my mother does ....
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Much of society is set up along this very idea. And, not just the unborn -- different ages from children to adults can be more or less "inferior" or "superior," depending on the issue at hand. Those terms, however, do not describe the reality of the situation as well as the term "value."
The unborn is of less "value" than the autonomous human being. But, the unborn increases in value as gestation progresses, hence, a first-trimester fetus is not as valuable as a second-trimester fetus, and a third-trimester fetus is not as valuable as a newborn infant. As a society, we've determined that as the value of the fetus progresses, the woman's right to terminate the pregnancy decreases, incrementally. Our laws reflect that fact.
The idea of value carries through other walks of life.
Who would be of more value as an elected leader? An adult? Or, a fetus?
Who was more valuable as a provider of food for early tribal civilizations? An adult? Or, a fetus?
We could go on all day with comparisons where we could show that a fetus (or even a child) was less valuable to society in specific situations. Through the millennia, we've developed laws that support those conclusions. So, when we get back to comparing the value of a mother versus the value of her fetus, the answer is clear-cut -- the mother is more valuable. There's not even a question about that. Yes, she is superior and teh fetus is inferior.
If the fetus survives, there will come a time when he/she increases in value.
That's the way it's been since the dawn of time.