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Thread: pro-life[W:1119]

  1. #1231
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    Re: pro-life[W:1119]

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrodom View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees that what we're talking about is human (as opposed to dog, cat, or chimpanzee, etc.) but it's a human FETUS or EMBRYO, not a human "being" or "person" with any sort of legal or official status.

    I see your point to a certain extent. Defining what is a human being or a human person is subjective. Human being less so than person. But for the sake of argument, I'll concede your point. However since as you said a human fetus is human. Doesn't that mean we have to scientifically qualify it as a Homo Sapien?

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    Re: pro-life[W:1119]

    Quote Originally Posted by caritas View Post
    Well, I could see a problem in that abortion could never be allowed in any circumstance. For instance, if someone had a tubal pregnancy or heart problem that could lead to heart failure.
    They wouldn't be allowed to get an abortion to save their life. Because if you treat both the fetus and the woman as completely equal you can't kill someone just to save your life. Of course, laws can be adjusted to make accommodations for such things while still restricting abortion in some cases. Also, this goes for everyone please try to keep it to one response. It is hard to have a conversation when there are so many things to respond to all at once.
    The following is just few unintended consequences:

    Personhood measures would provoke many years of legal battles in legislatures and courts, ensnaring women and their partners and doctors in expensive, time-consuming, and potentially liberty-infringing civil or criminal proceedings.

    Personhood would outlaw abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, terminally deformed fetuses, and danger to the woman's health. It would prohibit doctors from performing abortions and perhaps even if the life of the woman is in jeopardy. These restrictions endanger the lives and health of many women.

    By granting the embryo equal protection of the laws, the state would be forced to deny the same to the woman.

    Personhood laws would allow the government to infringe upon one of citizensí most fundamental rights, the right to privacy free from governmental intrusion.

    By the new definition, a miscarriage is essentially an unexplained death of a ďpersonĒ. Must the state then issue a death certificate, investigate every pregnancy loss, and consider the womb a crime scene or require a coronerís report?

    The word ďpersonĒ appears over tens of thousands of times in Federal, State, and local the laws. All stages of development from conception to birth will be apply to all said laws.

    The use of certain contraceptives will be outlawed. Birth control pills, intrauterine devices (IUDís), and the morning after pill work by preventing fertilization from occurring but, theoretically, may occasionally prevent a fertilized egg from implanting. Because personhood groups believe that every stage of development is legally a person from the moment of fertilization, these methods of birth control would not be allowed.

    Personhood proposals allow for much greater government interference in very personal healthcare decisions for women and their families. If fully enforced, they would lead to severe legal penalties for intentionally harming a zygote, embryo, or fetus, even in the event of life-threatening pregnancy complications. It would outlaw all elective abortions, forcing pregnant women to give birth against their own judgment, and it would encourage dangerous illegal abortions.

    Pregnant women will become a separate class, less protected by law than men or non-pregnant women. Government officials might be obliged, pressured, or inspired to investigate or prosecute any miscarriage deemed suspicious. A woman suspected of causing a miscarriage could be subject to criminal prosecution, as could others suspected of helping her.

    The Constitution instructs us to carry out a census every 10 years. Must we then count all millions of embryo ďpersonsĒ in frozen storage in IVF labs throughout the U.S.? Granting personhood to an embryo could potentially result in questioning census results.


    Since both Federal and State Tax Codes will be affected. If you have a woman who might experience two, three, four miscarriages in a year, can she claim those unborn people on her taxes?

    Organizations who are storage facilities for embryos - have had system failures resulting in the loss of tens of thousands of embryos (aka ďpersonsĒ). Will these loses be considered an act of negligent homicide - and those in charge sentenced as murderous felons?

    Okay, Iím getting finger fatigue. Iíll post more later. Thereís probably another dozen or so more relevant issues involved.
    You canít go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. ~~ Anonymous


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    Re: pro-life[W:1119]

    Quote Originally Posted by caritas View Post
    I see your point to a certain extent. Defining what is a human being or a human person is subjective. Human being less so than person. But for the sake of argument, I'll concede your point. However since as you said a human fetus is human. Doesn't that mean we have to scientifically qualify it as a Homo Sapien?
    I have no idea, and furthermore don't see what relevance that has to the subject of whether abortion should be a legal option.

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    Re: pro-life[W:1119]

    Quote Originally Posted by caritas View Post
    I see your point to a certain extent. Defining what is a human being or a human person is subjective. Human being less so than person. But for the sake of argument, I'll concede your point. However since as you said a human fetus is human. Doesn't that mean we have to scientifically qualify it as a Homo Sapien?
    Did you not take biology in high schools? There are definitions for species and one of them is having a common DNA.

    Homo sapiens have human DNA...even in the womb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    See thatís the problem with believing the devils lies. The unborn arenít imaginary.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: pro-life

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Another one without a uterus wanting to dictate to those of us with one what we can or cannot do with the contents of ours. Of course the zef is human life but no human life has a right to live inside of and attached to a person against that person's will. Pregnancy is not a benign condition. It has a huge impact on a woman's body. No woman should be forced to gestate and give birth.
    We have consequences to our actions. We all have to own up to our consequences. You think the woman magically got pregnant? I'll go further. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex.

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    Re: pro-life

    Quote Originally Posted by rockabillylaker View Post
    We have consequences to our actions. We all have to own up to our consequences. You think the woman magically got pregnant? I'll go further. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex.
    So you think a woman should be punished if her birth control fails?

    About 68 percent of US women of child bearing years use artifical birth control consistently and correctly.

    They do not chose to become pregnant yet 5 percent of those women will become pregnant in a years time since no artifical birth control is fail proof
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: pro-life

    Quote Originally Posted by rockabillylaker View Post
    We have consequences to our actions. We all have to own up to our consequences. You think the woman magically got pregnant? I'll go further. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex.
    Abortion IS a consequence.

    I have a better idea. How be people worry about their own lives and stay out of the private medical decisions of others?

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    Re: pro-life

    Quote Originally Posted by rockabillylaker View Post
    We have consequences to our actions. We all have to own up to our consequences. You think the woman magically got pregnant? I'll go further. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex.
    So a baby is punishment for a woman? Yeah, that's real concern for kids.

    Why shouldnt women enjoy sex? It's great, and since 68% use birth control, yet birth control is not 100% effective, and millions of people have sex every single day...you do the math.

    Women now have a legal, safer option if they dont want to remain pregnant. No need for them to not enjoy sex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    See thatís the problem with believing the devils lies. The unborn arenít imaginary.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: pro-life

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    So you think a woman should be punished if her birth control fails?

    About 68 percent of US women of child bearing years use artifical birth control consistently and correctly.

    They do not chose to become pregnant yet 5 percent of those women will become pregnant in a years time since no artifical birth control is fail proof
    LMAO, I wrote almost exactly the same thing!

    "Great minds...."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    See thatís the problem with believing the devils lies. The unborn arenít imaginary.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: pro-life[W:1119]

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrodom View Post
    I have no idea, and furthermore don't see what relevance that has to the subject of whether abortion should be a legal option.


    Well, it seems to me that you understand that a fetus is a human organism correct?

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