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Pro Choice

Bodhisattva said:
Men should have no say in the matter... even the label of pro-choice or pro-life is ridiculous. The harm that women can cause their unborn baby is too great.
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Number one. Don't you mean the harm a fetus can do to a woman is too great?;)

Number two.....I have no difficulty with a man having a say on this issue. It is the final decision that is not his.
 
year2late said:
Number one. Don't you mean the harm a fetus can do to a woman is too great?;)

Number two.....I have no difficulty with a man having a say on this issue. It is the final decision that is not his.
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Women who sit in the sun too long can give the unborn baby heat stroke or sunburn... this is unacceptable.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Women who sit in the sun too long can give the unborn baby heat stroke or sunburn... this is unacceptable.
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:lamo

Oh my God....are you telling me all that great pregnancy sex....we were .....ewwwww.:lamo
 
Celebrity said:
Why not just make sexually active citizens apply for a permit to raise children? You can still choose what to do with your body, but the state takes custody of the child if you exceed your legal capacity in child rearing. Happy now?

Related question which I stole from another forum (found on Google): Should there be a test or course that a person must pass before they can become a parent?
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Wut??
 
Celebrity said:
Why not just make sexually active citizens apply for a permit to raise children? You can still choose what to do with your body, but the state takes custody of the child if you exceed your legal capacity in child rearing. Happy now?

Related question which I stole from another forum (found on Google): Should there be a test or course that a person must pass before they can become a parent?
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Rape and Porn child are most evil in this planet. :lamo :lamo
 
Rape aren't this a man society but I like bodys too.
 
I like Russia more and working class are better than Communism regim.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Your analogy is just dumb. I'm a man and I am pro choice, so I'm not the one that is going to make the decision to end a pregnancy. You know what is an unalienable right? To do what you want to your body and make your own health decisions. Something women who have an abortion are doing, their rights to make their healthcare decisions
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Please explain how choosing what to do with your own body is cause for singling out one other person to vampirically extort over the course of 18 years.

I'm all for women making a medical decision. But this becomes more than a medical decision when the government won't pay welfare unless the biological mother gives them a name. Why can't she just ask for a handout like other poor people? Poverty isn't a license to financially abuse someone.

There is no reason why men should be forced to financially support a child. Women can choose not to support a child. Allowing women more rights than men is discrimination, plain and simple. Government funded welfare is one approach to solving this problem, and there are ways to improve the system. I think we should start by not forcing one man to reimburse the government because he had sex.
 
TheGoverness said:
Lol, no that's ridiculous.
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The voice of reason. Also not too long ago you said you would support an opt out for men on equal terms with women. I wonder if it's still true that you don't support state sanctioned abuse of straight men who have sex.
 
I'm apparently not "Pro Choice" on much of anything these days. My wife and I can't even decide where to eat when we go out... every-time (same discussion)..which place to you want to go? I dunno... no.. you choose? how about? no.. What about? You pick...I did last time...no you didn't...and so on

(we end up at last place we ate...neither remembering who picked)

How about being Semi Choice instead of Pro?
 
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Celebrity said:
Why not just make sexually active citizens apply for a permit to raise children? You can still choose what to do with your body, but the state takes custody of the child if you exceed your legal capacity in child rearing. Happy now?

Related question which I stole from another forum (found on Google): Should there be a test or course that a person must pass before they can become a parent?
Click to expand...

Yes there should be a test. You just failed
 
MrMike said:
I'm apparently not "Pro Choice" on much of anything these days. My wife and I can't even decide where to eat when we go out... every-time (same discussion)..which place to you want to go? no.. you choose? no.. I did last time...no you didn't...and so on

(we end up at last place we ate...neither remembering who picked)

How about being Semi Choice instead of Pro?
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You can be pro women. That's consistent with unequal social choices, and allows you to support women's rights while supporting the abuse of men.

On the flip side, take Sampson Simpson for example. He thinks he's "pro choice," but he clearly wants only women to have a choice and not men. Calling that position "pro choice" is false, because it's not pro choice for men, only women.

So I take it you're conservative, MrMike. Let me preface my question to you with a bit of background information. Some "pro choice" and "pro life" people believe that women and/or men make a choice when they have sex, and that's that. According to the law, women have choices afterwards, so let's phrase the question in terms of women's choices.

How can a man be held responsible, at the time of sex, for a choice which a woman has not yet made?

vegas giants said:
Yes there should be a test. You just failed
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Please answer the above question.
 
Celebrity said:
You can be pro women. That's consistent with unequal social choices, and allows you to support women's rights while supporting the abuse of men.

On the flip side, take Sampson Simpson for example. He thinks he's "pro choice," but he clearly wants only women to have a choice and not men. Calling that position "pro choice" is false, because it's not pro choice for men, only women.

So I take it you're conservative, MrMike. Let me preface my question to you with a bit of background information. Some "pro choice" and "pro life" people believe that women and/or men make a choice when they have sex, and that's that. According to the law, women have choices afterwards, so let's phrase the question in terms of women's choices.

How can a man be held responsible, at the time of sex, for a choice which a woman has not yet made?



Please answer the above question.
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That's a tough question. I'm not even sure if there is a single right answer. You would think both (male and female) should have an equal choice in the matter. If the choices each makes are different, then it becomes a lot more difficult.

I guess that's why it continues to elude the nation as an issue.
 
Celebrity said:
Why not just make sexually active citizens apply for a permit to raise children? You can still choose what to do with your body, but the state takes custody of the child if you exceed your legal capacity in child rearing. Happy now?

Related question which I stole from another forum (found on Google): Should there be a test or course that a person must pass before they can become a parent?
Click to expand...

No. There is no legal capacity for child rearing

No there can be no test
 
MrMike said:
That's a tough question. I'm not even sure if there is a single right answer. You would think both (male and female) should have an equal choice in the matter. If the choices each makes are different, then it becomes a lot more difficult.

I guess that's why it continues to elude the nation as an issue.
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The choice may be different, but the circumstances are nearly identical.

The reason why men do not have reproductive rights is because it is not considered profitable to provide adequate support for the children of parents who lack wealth. This impoverished circumstance is a direct result of a woman's choice following the sex. Men who live in poverty do not choose to make children live in poverty.

I believe that there is a right answer, and that is that men cannot be held responsible for the outcome of a choice made by another person, unless that person is in their custody, and they cannot be held accountable for a choice which has not yet been made.

This leads me to the conclusion that men are not being held accountable for any action of their own.

Child support enforcement and the incarceration of parents are symptoms of a society which does not care for its children, but rather shifts the burden to someone else and punishes them if they fail to achieve an arbitrary goal.

Men are abused and we say that it is their responsibility to be abused. It is not.

vegas giants said:
No. There is no legal capacity for child rearing

No there can be no test
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It would appear that you have directly contradicted your previous post. Had a change of heart?
 
Celebrity said:
Please explain how choosing what to do with your own body is cause for singling out one other person to vampirically extort over the course of 18 years.

I'm all for women making a medical decision. But this becomes more than a medical decision when the government won't pay welfare unless the biological mother gives them a name. Why can't she just ask for a handout like other poor people? Poverty isn't a license to financially abuse someone.

There is no reason why men should be forced to financially support a child. Women can choose not to support a child. Allowing women more rights than men is discrimination, plain and simple. Government funded welfare is one approach to solving this problem, and there are ways to improve the system. I think we should start by not forcing one man to reimburse the government because he had sex.
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So then men should consciously make a 'reproductive' decision. Are you saying that men are not capable of this? That they cant decide if it's smart to risk 18 yrs of child support or not?

Because they can. You know that. What you dont like is that it means men can no longer have sex without consequences anymore. Some men still feel *entitled* to sex without consequences...but that ship has sailed. Now you will be held responsible for your reproductive decisions just like women are and always have been. Do you feel that men should be entitled to sex without consequences?

Sounds pretty equal to me.

Can you please, instead of avoiding it, directly answer the questions in bold?
 
MrMike said:
That's a tough question. I'm not even sure if there is a single right answer. You would think both (male and female) should have an equal choice in the matter. If the choices each makes are different, then it becomes a lot more difficult.

I guess that's why it continues to elude the nation as an issue.
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There can be no "equal" choices on this issue.

So perhaps the answer is not to have to make the choice.

Men need to have access to safe and inexpensive forms of long term contraception so this question never - or rarely - comes up for them.

But the bottom line is that "opt out" will never work as long as tax payers are footing the bill. What should be fought for is more reasonable child support options - not jail.
 
year2late said:
There can be no "equal" choices on this issue.

So perhaps the answer is not to have to make the choice.

Men need to have access to safe and inexpensive forms of long term contraception so this question never - or rarely - comes up for them.

But the bottom line is that "opt out" will never work as long as tax payers are footing the bill. What should be fought for is more reasonable child support options - not jail.
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You know, I remember as a kid hearing about the "girl" who got pregnant. Never heard much about the "boy" who got (her) pregnant in such a negative light. Obviously the burden (Scarlett letter of shame) was borne by the female who was left holding the bag (baby).

So there is that reality to consider...
 
MrMike said:
You know, I remember as a kid hearing about the "girl" who got pregnant. Never heard much about the "boy" who got (her) pregnant in such a negative light. Obviously the burden (Scarlett letter of shame) was borne by the female who was left holding the bag (baby).

So there is that reality to consider...
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Hell, it is funny that when you hear about pledges for no sex until marriage....it never involves the men.:lamo
 
Celebrity said:
The choice may be different, but the circumstances are nearly identical.

The reason why men do not have reproductive rights is because it is not considered profitable to provide adequate support for the children of parents who lack wealth. This impoverished circumstance is a direct result of a woman's choice following the sex. Men who live in poverty do not choose to make children live in poverty.

I believe that there is a right answer, and that is that men cannot be held responsible for the outcome of a choice made by another person, unless that person is in their custody, and they cannot be held accountable for a choice which has not yet been made.

This leads me to the conclusion that men are not being held accountable for any action of their own.

Child support enforcement and the incarceration of parents are symptoms of a society which does not care for its children, but rather shifts the burden to someone else and punishes them if they fail to achieve an arbitrary goal.

Men are abused and we say that it is their responsibility to be abused. It is not.



It would appear that you have directly contradicted your previous post. Had a change of heart?
Click to expand...

No clue what you are on about
 
Celebrity said:
Please explain how choosing what to do with your own body is cause for singling out one other person to vampirically extort over the course of 18 years.

I'm all for women making a medical decision. But this becomes more than a medical decision when the government won't pay welfare unless the biological mother gives them a name. Why can't she just ask for a handout like other poor people? Poverty isn't a license to financially abuse someone.

There is no reason why men should be forced to financially support a child. Women can choose not to support a child. Allowing women more rights than men is discrimination, plain and simple. Government funded welfare is one approach to solving this problem, and there are ways to improve the system. I think we should start by not forcing one man to reimburse the government because he had sex.
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Why is it that almost every thread in this forum gets hijacked by this argument????
 
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