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If the NRA owns Republicans, Planned Parenthood owns Democrats

Bucky said:
You do realize many Trump supporters were Obama supporters and aren't even Democrats?

As I stated in another thread, Trump will get reelected in a landslide. He defied everyone's expectations. We need him to finish the job on abortion.
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What job? Banning abortion will never end abortion. It will just make it less safe. Hell, in some areas they might even be easier to get. Your local pusher or herbalist is closer than a Planned Parenthood.

Show me stats that indicate decent percentages of Obama Supporters came to support Trump.

I cannot wait.

BTW, hating Hillary is not the same as supporting Trump.
 
Bucky said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...mocrats-christian-schneider-column/372679002/

I am curious to why Planned Parenthood gets a free pass from the media. They are spending about $20 million for a Big Abortion campaign against Trump/Republicans. How is being bought by the NRA a bad thing yet being bought by PP a good thing?

IMO it is hypocritical to say someone is bought by the NRA yet stay silent when many leftist politicians are raking in tons of donations from this controversial organization that still performs partial-birth abortions (which is illegal) and sells human body parts.
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Just imagine if Tom Brady had been aborted...
 
year2late said:
What job? Banning abortion will never end abortion. It will just make it less safe. Hell, in some areas they might even be easier to get. Your local pusher or herbalist is closer than a Planned Parenthood.

Show me stats that indicate decent percentages of Obama Supporters came to support Trump.

I cannot wait.

BTW, hating Hillary is not the same as supporting Trump.
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Other countries criminalize women that have abortions.

If you do that, I bet that would end abortion.
 
Bucky said:
Other countries criminalize women that have abortions.

If you do that, I bet that would end abortion.
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You do not think residents of those countries illegally obtain abortions on a regular basis?
 
Lursa said:
??? Of course they are human. They have human DNA. That doesnt make them persons. A dead person has human DNA, doenst make them part of society either.

What is your point?
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That it would appear you are quite supportive of killing living human beings, by your own admission that fetuses are human beings and supporting abortion.

It's the law that it is permitted. That's a fact. Just as it is a fact that aborting a fetus is in fact killing a human being. Fact sometimes are troubling things.
 
eohrnberger said:
That it would appear you are quite supportive of killing living human beings, by your own admission that fetuses are human beings and supporting abortion.

It's the law that it is permitted. That's a fact. Just as it is a fact that aborting a fetus is in fact killing a human being. Fact sometimes are troubling things.
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No, the unborn are human. Not a 'human being' and not a 'person.' And yes, I am honest in that I realize the abortion is killing the unborn.

And I am not troubled by it altho it may be sad. What would be more troubling to me would be using force to demand women remain pregnant and the violations of our Constitutional rights that would be necessary to do so.

As I wrote, I value the unborn, but I value all born people more.

You hold no moral high ground valuing the unborn more than women. And legally and ethically, they cannot be treated equally.

If you think the mother's will should be overcome to give birth, you do not value both equally. You are valuing the unborn over women.
 
Bucky said:
I have no need to provide proof if you already have a position set in stone. Let's be honest Lursa. No amount of facts will sway your current position, no matter how convincing or damning.
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No, you are posting lies and dont want to admit that there IS NO factual support for your fantasy.

If you had facts, I would accept them. Want to see? Post your sources.

As the old saying goes, "put up or shut up."

But dont pretend you cant be bothered to do so when the truth is...you got nuthin'
 
Bucky said:
I have no desire to debate someone so entrenched in their position. At least Trump supporters listen. They aren't tangled in such partisan politics, it is refreshing to debate people who aren't devoid of objectivity.
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It's also refreshing to debate with people who dont just post lies.

Attempting to debate with you is like taking your posts and tossing them out like a huge moldy stale loaf of bread to pigeons.... and the pigeons wont accept that garbage either.
 
Lursa said:
No, the unborn are human. Not a 'human being' and not a 'person.' And yes, I am honest in that I realize the abortion is killing the unborn.

And I am not troubled by it altho it may be sad. What would be more troubling to me would be using force to demand women remain pregnant and the violations of our Constitutional rights that would be necessary to do so.

As I wrote, I value the unborn, but I value all born people more.

You hold no moral high ground valuing the unborn more than women. And legally and ethically, they cannot be treated equally.

If you think the mother's will should be overcome to give birth, you do not value both equally. You are valuing the unborn over women.
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I'll agree with you that it is sad.

I'll even agree that it isn't an easy decision.

Where I think we may differ, is I think that preventative measures to conception should have been taken.

We've crossed paths on this topic on occasion, and I don't think that we'll ever agree.

Suffice it to say that it is presently the law of the land and unlikely to change.

But that doesn't change the fact that it is killing a human being, and the troubling morals that that act carries with it. The Gandhi does indeed apply and should be food for thought.
 
eohrnberger said:
I'll agree with you that it is sad.

I'll even agree that it isn't an easy decision.

Where I think we may differ, is I think that preventative measures to conception should have been taken.

We've crossed paths on this topic on occasion, and I don't think that we'll ever agree.

Suffice it to say that it is presently the law of the land and unlikely to change.

But that doesn't change the fact that it is killing a human being, and the troubling morals that that act carries with it. The Gandhi does indeed apply and should be food for thought.
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I agree with you on most of that...but on the basic issue itself I dont.

I did pose some tough questions however...ones that I can answer (whether I like it or not) but pro-life people often refuse. Because as we have both noted...the issue is about tough questions.
 
eohrnberger said:
I'll agree with you that it is sad.

I'll even agree that it isn't an easy decision.

Where I think we may differ, is I think that preventative measures to conception should have been taken.

We've crossed paths on this topic on occasion, and I don't think that we'll ever agree.

Suffice it to say that it is presently the law of the land and unlikely to change.

But that doesn't change the fact that it is killing a human being, and the troubling morals that that act carries with it. The Gandhi does indeed apply and should be food for thought.
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Contraception has a failure rate. You seem to assume that there was no contraception used.

The most relaiable form of contraception (outside of sterilization) are long term methods (implants/IUD) the problem is that they are very expensive - so if you are too rich for Medicaid but too poor to afford the service or too poor for insurance - you are out of luck. The cost can far exceed the cost of an abortion. That is just too sad.
 
Lursa said:
Do you support abortion in cases of rape or incest?
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I wouldn't inject myself into another's decision in those circumstances, no.

Lursa said:
I agree with you on most of that...but on the basic issue itself I dont.

I did pose some tough questions however...ones that I can answer (whether I like it or not) but pro-life people often refuse. Because as we have both noted...the issue is about tough questions.
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Agreed. It's a very difficult decision with those faced with it. Thankfully, in my life, I never have.
Those that face this decision need to make their own decision, guided by their own compass, and ideally, shouldn't be criticized by anyone for the decision they make for themselves.

I don't agree with the glorification of act that some seem to have taken up. As stated, it's sad, it's very personal, and should be free from criticism and retribution.

All these noble thoughts are fine, and are immaterial to the act itself and what it is, however. That's just inescapable.
 
eohrnberger said:
I wouldn't inject myself into another's decision in those circumstances, no.



Agreed. It's a very difficult decision with those faced with it. Thankfully, in my life, I never have.
Those that face this decision need to make their own decision, guided by their own compass, and ideally, shouldn't be criticized by anyone for the decision they make for themselves.

I don't agree with the glorification of act that some seem to have taken up. As stated, it's sad, it's very personal, and should be free from criticism and retribution.

All these noble thoughts are fine, and are immaterial to the act itself and what it is, however. That's just inescapable.
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I appreciate the civility.
 
year2late said:
Contraception has a failure rate. You seem to assume that there was no contraception used.

The most relaiable form of contraception (outside of sterilization) are long term methods (implants/IUD) the problem is that they are very expensive - so if you are too rich for Medicaid but too poor to afford the service or too poor for insurance - you are out of luck. The cost can far exceed the cost of an abortion. That is just too sad.
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The most effective method is also free: Just don't unless you are ready for a child.
Aside from that, yes, there are expensive contraceptive methods, just as there are inexpensive and effective contraceptive methods.

Surely you aren't assuming that the contraceptive failure rate is equal to the abortion rate.
 
eohrnberger said:
Surely you aren't assuming that the contraceptive failure rate is equal to the abortion rate.
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PARTLY DEPENDS ON DEFINITIONS. A significant fraction of abortions can be linked to failed contraceptives (which means contraceptives got used, first). And with respect to the IUD, which works to prevent womb-implantation, there are those who insist that that contraceptive-use, at least, is strongly correlated to an abortion rate (of all blastocyst-stage human entities resulting from a woman's sexual activities).
 
Bucky said:
Other countries criminalize women that have abortions.

If you do that, I bet that would end abortion.
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Abortion is against the law in the small European Island of country of Malta.

Women who are convicted of an abortion in Malta seve from 18 months to 4 years in Prison.

When a Maltese woman wants an abortion she will often goes on Holiday to the UK to get hers.

In fact the Maltese have the highest rate of Abortions in the UK.

Malta has highest rate of women who had abortion in UK

https://www.tvm.com.mt/en/news/malta-has-highest-rate-of-women-who-had-abortion-in-uk/
 
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Bucky said:
If a rapist knew that their victim could not get an abortion, they would less likely commit a rape or sexual assault a woman. The number of rape victims has significantly increased ever since Roe v Wade was passed.

The bold is not completely wrong. The number of sexual assaults has increased. It would decrease with stronger abortions laws.
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OMG, the ignorance in that one statement just blew my mind. :shock: You really think a rapist cares about getting his victim pregnant??? Wow....just, wow.
 
minnie616 said:
Abortion is against the law in the small European Island of country of Malta.

Women who are convicted of an abortion in Malta seve from 18 months to 4 years in Prison.

When a Maltese woman wants an abortion she will often goes on Holiday to the UK to get hers.

In fact the Maltese have the highest rate of Abortions in the UK.

Malta has highest rate of women who had abortion in UK

https://www.tvm.com.mt/en/news/malta-has-highest-rate-of-women-who-had-abortion-in-uk/
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Hence the tradition of medical tourism stays strong in this day and age.
 
Bucky said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...mocrats-christian-schneider-column/372679002/

I am curious to why Planned Parenthood gets a free pass from the media. They are spending about $20 million for a Big Abortion campaign against Trump/Republicans. How is being bought by the NRA a bad thing yet being bought by PP a good thing?

IMO it is hypocritical to say someone is bought by the NRA yet stay silent when many leftist politicians are raking in tons of donations from this controversial organization that still performs partial-birth abortions (which is illegal) and sells human body parts.
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The media aside, both major parties are owned by their mega, huge money donors. A lot of donors give huge sums to both parties, corporations, lobbyists, wall street firms, special interests etc. That way no matter which party wins, which candidates win or lose, they got themselves covered. Both parties owe them.

When we root and vote for one party or the other, we are rooting and voting for those moneyed folks who buy, er, donate their huge sums to a bigger return from whomever wins on their investment, er, donations. These moneyed folks like corporations, wall street, lobbyists etc are good, sound businessmen. They wouldn't invest unless the return is much higher than the original investment, er. donation. These hard core businessmen or whatever, I'm sure don't have civics in mind.

Just look at Trump, he has given huge sums to both parties over the years. When asked about that he said, "I give to politicians; and they give back." (Aug 2015)
 
eohrnberger said:
The most effective method is also free: Just don't unless you are ready for a child.
Aside from that, yes, there are expensive contraceptive methods, just as there are inexpensive and effective contraceptive methods.

Surely you aren't assuming that the contraceptive failure rate is equal to the abortion rate.
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Push abstinence all you want..you might as well have the slogan of the campaign be "Just Say No"

And contraceptive failure is significant, but not equal to the number of abortions. Some people who have an unintended pregnancy are prepared to continue the pregnancy.

Birth Control Failure Rates - American Pregnancy Association
 
year2late said:
Push abstinence all you want..you might as well have the slogan of the campaign be "Just Say No"

And contraceptive failure is significant, but not equal to the number of abortions. Some people who have an unintended pregnancy are prepared to continue the pregnancy.

Birth Control Failure Rates - American Pregnancy Association
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Abstinence is one the options, yes. That is an indisputable fact, especially when the person in question is not raised in an instant gratification, no consequences for choices parenting, which, yes, does have an influence in the matter.
 
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