• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time'

Lursa said:
Huh, and yet there's that law....
Click to expand...

The law is contradictory. On one hand, the US Constitution protects me from debt peonage, and on the other, the federal government will reimburse states for incarcerating men who cannot afford to pay a debt.

How can I follow a legal code which contradicts itself? It is not possible. Moreover, it is not possible to enforce two laws which contradict one another.
 
Celebrity said:
The law is contradictory. On one hand, the US Constitution protects me from debt peonage, and on the other, the federal government will reimburse states for incarcerating men who cannot afford to pay a debt.

How can I follow a legal code which contradicts itself? It is not possible. Moreover, it is not possible to enforce two laws which contradict one another.
Click to expand...

It's not a debt. It's a responsibility based on income. A poor man is not assessed impossible child support. You act as if an impossible obligation is set and an innocent man is sent to jail. That's a victim fantasy.
 
ecofarm said:
It's not a debt. It's a responsibility based on income. A poor man is not assessed impossible child support. You act as if an impossible obligation is set and an innocent man is sent to jail. That's a victim fantasy.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting this information? From my personal experience, it is a debt which cannot be discharged. That "responsibility" may be "based on income," but it is entirely up to a judge. Poor men are assessed impossible child support, and that is why men who fail to pay child support go to jail.

Innocent men are sent to jail. There is no fantasy here.

Here is an example of a fantasy: high school students who take home plastic dolls will make better parents if they record notes on the affair.

What administrator is going to arrange for an instructor who tells male students they will go to jail if they have sex with a woman? None? That's what I think.
 
Celebrity said:
Poor men are assessed impossible child support, and that is why men who fail to pay child support go to jail.

Innocent men are sent to jail. There is no fantasy here.
Click to expand...

That's not how it works. That's a victim narrative.
 
ecofarm said:
That's not how it works. That's a victim narrative.
Click to expand...

Beyond your rhetoric, what proof do you have?

This is how it works. You say it doesn't work that way. It does. If you want to call it a victim narrative, then maybe that's because innocent men are victims of injustice.
 
Celebrity said:
Beyond your rhetoric, what proof do you have?

This is how it works. You say it doesn't work that way. It does. If you want to call it a victim narrative, then maybe that's because innocent men are victims of injustice.
Click to expand...

Got stats for your claim?
 
Celebrity said:
That's incredibly vague. I've posted lots of statistics for my many claims. Can you be more specific?
Click to expand...

Men incarcerated for failure to pay child support had no chance of meeting their obligations.
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
Men incarcerated for failure to pay child support had no chance of meeting their obligations.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly my claim. After all, those men were born in the first place, so they had a chance (in life) to meet those obligations.

The obligation is unjust in the first place. You are trying to twist my words in order to pretend that due process was afforded to these men.

If women were incarcerated for failure to create a human child, I might say they had a "chance" to "meet their obligation" despite having chosen abortion.

Abortion is legal for women and not men. Men do not have a choice in parentage.
 
Celebrity said:
That's not exactly my claim. After all, those men were born in the first place, so they had a chance (in life) to meet those obligations.

The obligation is unjust in the first place. You are trying to twist my words in order to pretend that due process was afforded to these men.

If women were incarcerated for failure to create a human child, I might say they had a "chance" to "meet their obligation" despite having chosen abortion.

Abortion is legal for women and not men. Men do not have a choice in parentage.
Click to expand...

You're claiming dead-beats are victims. Prove it.
 
ecofarm said:
You claimed men who are incarcerated for failure to pay child support (not a debt) are victims of impossible obligations. Prove it. Show us the stats.
Click to expand...

Child support is a debt which cannot be discharged.

Again, my claim is that the obligation is unjust in the first place.

Celebrity said:
That's not exactly my claim. After all, those men were born in the first place, so they had a chance (in life) to meet those obligations.

The obligation is unjust in the first place. You are trying to twist my words in order to pretend that due process was afforded to these men.

If women were incarcerated for failure to create a human child, I might say they had a "chance" to "meet their obligation" despite having chosen abortion.

Abortion is legal for women and not men. Men do not have a choice in parentage.
Click to expand...

Do you have any further questions?
 
ecofarm said:
You claimed men who are incarcerated for failure to pay child support (not a debt) are victims of impossible obligations. Prove it. Show us the stats.
Click to expand...

I have continually posted in various threads on this that child support is not punitive. :roll:

Just because some feel that way about it doesnt make it true. It's an obligation based on a decision, a risk, knowingly taken.

Some of these guys sound like gambler that roll the dice and then whine when they have to pay up.

Men can 100% protect themselves here...but it seems some dont find that choice acceptable. Well...too bad...society doesnt find paying $$ for your sperm donation acceptable.
 
Celebrity said:
Child support is a debt which cannot be discharged.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that refers to child support that a man or woman has not paid over time and is a big lump sum that they owe for their kid. It's not referring to individual payments.

It's bad enough that when people declare bankruptcy, many businesses they owe get smaller or no repayments...now you suggest that would be acceptable for a child?
 
Lursa said:
Well...too bad...society doesnt find paying $$ for your sperm donation acceptable.
Click to expand...

Another aspect of the misogynist 'opt out' fantasy.

1. Force a woman to do something with her body, or even "child", under threat.
2. Society should pay for my services.



And what prevents a couple from having the male 'opt out' for government assistance purpose? This rape and gift fantasy isn't thought through at all. It's like a fly trap for men with women-issues.
 
ecofarm said:
Another aspect of the misogynist 'opt out' fantasy.

1. Force a woman to do something with her body, or even "child", under threat.
2. Society should pay for my services.



And what prevents a couple from having the male 'opt out' for government assistance purpose? This rape and gift fantasy isn't thought through at all. It's like a fly trap for men with women-issues.
Click to expand...

Yup

IMO, some men just cannot--will not--accept the fact that in the US, men can no longer have sex without consequences. It's a very deeply entrenched entitlement and when you read these discussions, it's barely acknowledged...but to get around it in more recent discussions, we now have the 'opt out' proposals to make it 'equal'.

"If she can have sex without consequences (women cannot, never could, still cant), then men should be able to". Hence the opt out before birth silliness.
 
Lursa said:
Yup

IMO, some men just cannot--will not--accept the fact that in the US, men can no longer have sex without consequences. It's a very deeply entrenched entitlement and when you read these discussions, it's barely acknowledged...but to get around it in more recent discussions, we now have the 'opt out' proposals to make it 'equal'.

"If she can have sex without consequences (women cannot, never could, still cant), then men should be able to". Hence the opt out before birth silliness.
Click to expand...

Men have NEVER had sex without consequences. Ever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom