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Thread: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

  1. #211
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    I've had 9 women in my family haranguing me about my health since last Tuesday when I got results from tests on Monday. I grant, six of them are professional nurses.

    Your Mom told me to pass this on to you:

    https://whatscookingamerica.net/soup...icken-soup.htm

    Don't skip on the bay leaves, and of course you'll feed this to the men in your life.
    Cute.

    Would you want anyone to legally have the right to interfere with your medical care ?

  2. #212
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Cute.

    Would you want anyone to legally have the right to interfere with your medical care ?
    Ask me that question right after the next time I go to battle with Medicare, as I often did with my private insurers.

    Unfortunately, this issue of lawful interference with the health of others, doesn't truly address the important issues of abortion, pro or con, but it does distract from those arguments.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

  3. #213
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Ask me that question right after the next time I go to battle with Medicare, as I often did with my private insurers.

    Unfortunately, this issue of lawful interference with the health of others, doesn't truly address the important issues of abortion, pro or con, but it does distract from those arguments.
    Interfereing with the health of a woman during pregnancy/childbirth is an important issue re: abortion but as it seems here, is often glossed over or ignored.

    But perhaps I'm wrong about your comment.
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  4. #214
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I see no reason why men cannot contribute to the discussion on abortion, on either side.

    Perhaps you are thinking of comments saying that the only one who can make the decision regarding a pregnancy is the pregnant woman herself?
    I think in a perfect world both parties would be involved in the decision. But ultimately it is the woman’s decision.

  5. #215
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Interfereing with the health of a woman during pregnancy/childbirth is an important issue re: abortion but as it seems here, is often glossed over or ignored.

    But perhaps I'm wrong about your comment.
    It is only important when doctors in conflict with each other over treatment and insurers are interfering.

    For pregnant women, they should consider all other critics irrelevant to their decisions.

    On a personal basis, I oppose abortion for reasons not threatening the mother's health or as a result of rape. However, I understand and respect the decision for an abortion to be outside my purview, unless invited to participate in the very personal debate for the woman making a decision.

    And I firmly believe politicians should forego the debate in its entirety.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

  6. #216
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    On a personal basis, I oppose "abortion for reasons not threatening the mother's health or as a result of rape"
    WHY? What makes other reasons to obtain an abortion less-valid in your opinion? My opinion is that your opposition to those reasons is as nonsensical as the opposition of anyone else. (Like, say, those who blather the Stupid Lie that an unborn human has some sort of right to live.)
    Stupidly Prejudiced Master Race Idiocy was supposedly stomped into irrelevance by WW2; insisting "human=person" fails to Be Prepared for any future with non-human persons in it. So: Define "person" to accurately distinguish one, regardless of how exists, from a mere animal, universally. Why should Stupid Prejudice let our unborn qualify?

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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    It is only important when doctors in conflict with each other over treatment and insurers are interfering.

    For pregnant women, they should consider all other critics irrelevant to their decisions.

    On a personal basis, I oppose abortion for reasons not threatening the mother's health or as a result of rape. However, I understand and respect the decision for an abortion to be outside my purview, unless invited to participate in the very personal debate for the woman making a decision.


    And I firmly believe politicians should forego the debate in its entirety.
    A bit off topic but after the post previous to this one, it brings to mind these comments:

    I can respect what I bolded in Old Fat Guy's post. I dont have to agree with his reasons, but I respect even more that since he is firmly against something, he still respects rights and bodily sovereignty and the Constitution more (please excuse me if I've presumed this incorrectly). And as such, does not support standing in the way of legal abortion.

    For myself, a related sentiment is that no matter what I write about supporting the unimpeded right to abortion...IMO you have to be a ****ing idiot to risk pregnancy without birth control if you dont want a kid. I seriously believe that. That or very drunk/stoned. For both men and women...the costs are just way too high, it's not worth it.

    And I've thought this way since my teens and never in my life have I risked sex without bc. I TRULY knew I didnt want to get pregnant, the thought terrified me, what it would mean to my life. And I partied plenty in college, drank too much many times. Still, NEVER took that chance. It's almost incomprehensible to me that other women dont feel the same way.

    But obviously, many...most?...dont. And I have to accept that, so I do. So I dont even bother touching on it in this sub-forum. There's no point, it's reality. That fight isnt mine to fight, it's not winnable.

    I'm sure some will find this offensive, hey we all did stupid stuff at one time or another in life, I'm no different. But I still feel the same about this...that's how incredibly seriously I took NOT risking a pregnancy.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #218
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I can respect what I bolded in Old Fat Guy's post. I dont have to agree with his reasons,
    I SIMPLY WANT MORE AWARENESS OF REASONS. All too often people don't admit they do (or don't do) something-or-other for purely selfish reasons. Anyone who promotes something but doesn't know why, or opposes something but doesn't know why, needs to thoroughly examine the motivation for either the promotion or the opposition. In any Debate, remember, there is a goal of convincing the undecided that your argument is better than some other argument. Well, mere say-so doesn't cut it! And so far as I've seen, a huge fraction of opposition to abortion boils down to "you should oppose it because of mere say-so". NOPE!
    Stupidly Prejudiced Master Race Idiocy was supposedly stomped into irrelevance by WW2; insisting "human=person" fails to Be Prepared for any future with non-human persons in it. So: Define "person" to accurately distinguish one, regardless of how exists, from a mere animal, universally. Why should Stupid Prejudice let our unborn qualify?

  9. #219
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    For myself, a related sentiment is that no matter what I write about supporting the unimpeded right to abortion...IMO you have to be a ****ing idiot to risk pregnancy without birth control if you dont want a kid. I seriously believe that. That or very drunk/stoned. For both men and women...the costs are just way too high, it's not worth it.
    You understood me correctly.

    I only differ with you slightly. While birth control is the best course of action for those who don't desire a pregnancy, it isn't always a solution. I've known women who's partner used a condom, others who used the pill, and one with IUD, who all got pregnant. No form of birth control is 100%. But better something than nothing. Condoms can break and leak, the pill doesn't always do what it should, and those little special men can circumvent the strongest of barriers at times. Of course it could have been an immaculate conception??? @ me

    My first wife was the one with the IUD, and she was taking the pill for another medical reason at the time. We already had three, she had returned to school to finish her masters degree, and we weren't certain we wanted another. At the very least, she wanted to wait at least another year until she finished her masters before dealing with the decision making process. She has always wanted a big family and I had no objections. In the end we mutually decided four was enough. I grew up with 5 siblings, she grew up with seven. We both were as close as possible with all our siblings, and maintained those relations for as long as each lived. Now there are my two sisters, and one of her brothers and one of her sisters still around. We're all over 70 except me, I have another year to go, and she passed 7 years ago, too soon. Now I am fortunate to have remarried almost 2 years now. I married my oldest son's mother in law. His first wife passed prematurely, his second wife's husband passed prematurely. They met a support group for widowed parents raising children. They needed each other, and it has worked nicely for them. Both of their previous spouses would have been pleased with who they each found, both as companions and lovers for each other, and substitute parents for their children. And then they added twin boys of their own to the mix. I should have gelded my son. These two 3 year olds are turning into holy terrors. They are holy terrors and have been since they started crawling. I had forgotten how fast crawling babies can move. "No, dooooon't touch that!" as if they would listen to me.

    My second wife and I were case of mutual hate at first sight. Friendship followed admiration for the manners with which we both treated all our grandchildren. Somehow I ended up with two important women in my life who both habitually prefer(ed) sleeping with their cold feet firmly planted in the center of my back. There's no hope.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

  10. #220
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    Re: Men not being involved in the abortion debate

    Quote Originally Posted by FutureIncoming View Post
    I SIMPLY WANT MORE AWARENESS OF REASONS. All too often people don't admit they do (or don't do) something-or-other for purely selfish reasons. Anyone who promotes something but doesn't know why, or opposes something but doesn't know why, needs to thoroughly examine the motivation for either the promotion or the opposition. In any Debate, remember, there is a goal of convincing the undecided that your argument is better than some other argument. Well, mere say-so doesn't cut it! And so far as I've seen, a huge fraction of opposition to abortion boils down to "you should oppose it because of mere say-so". NOPE!
    What possibly makes you believe you are entitled to the reasons of others? Or that you can believe whatever you are told? You presume too much.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

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