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Irish abortion referendum: Vote to be held in May

Dragonfly

Dragonfly

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Irish abortion referendum: Vote to be held in May - BBC News

The Irish government has agreed to hold a referendum at the end of May on whether to reform the country's near-total ban on abortion.The vote will decide whether to repeal a constitutional amendment that effectively bans terminations.
Currently abortion is only allowed when a woman's life is at risk, but not in cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality.
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Shall be interesting to see how this turns out.
 
Is there any doubt it will pass?
 
American said:
I'm sure it will pass with flying colors.
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Do you have any insight into what kind of law they would want?

Unrestricted?

Up to 12 weeks?

Paid by individual or insurance?
 
year2late said:
Do you have any insight into what kind of law they would want?

Unrestricted?

Up to 12 weeks?

Paid by individual or insurance?
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Nope, just think Europe is pretty liberal right now.
 
American said:
Is there any doubt it will pass?
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I wouldn't be shocked if it didn't pass.

These are people who justified making abortion illegal for rape victims.

I hope they're open to change, but won't be shocked if they need a few more years to evolve.
 
year2late said:
Do you have any insight into what kind of law they would want?

Unrestricted?

Up to 12 weeks?

Paid by individual or insurance?
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From the BBC link:

Before the vote, the country's health minister will draft legislation proposing unrestricted abortion access be made available to women who are up to 12 weeks pregnant, and in exceptional circumstances after.
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I consider this referendum as somewhat of a farce, but it's better than maintaining the 1983 "fetal right to life" law. The Catholic Church still has its big toe in the middle of all of this.


Oct 2017 Article from The Atlantic

Ireland remains a predominantly Catholic country. Although a 2016 census found that the total number of people identifying as Catholic fell by 132,200 between 2011 and 2016 (a decline that corresponds with the rise in those who identify as having no religion), an overwhelming 78.3 percent still identifies with the Church.

But the extent to which the religion’s beliefs and practices govern Irish society has, over the years, undergone a gradual shift—one that some attribute to the weakening of the Church’s status following revelations of clerical child abuse in the 1990s. This shift was marked by a number of other milestones regarded as proof of Ireland’s mounting progressivism, from its 2015 referendum legalizing same-sex marriage in 2015, to the election of Varadkar, the county’s first openly gay premier, in June.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/ireland-abortion-referendum/541527/
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The Prime Minister said the draft laws would only permit abortion after 12 weeks in 'exceptional circumstances', such as a serious risk to the life or health of the woman or in the event of a fatal foetal abnormality.

Addressing the press after a four hour Cabinet meeting on the contentious issue, the Taoiseach said if the Eighth Amendment was repealed abortion would 'no longer be an article in the constitution, rather a personal, private matter for women and their doctors'.

'I know this will be a difficult decision for the Irish people to make,' he said.

'I know it is a very personal and private issue and for most of us it is not a black and white issue, it is one that is grey - the balance between the rights of a pregnant woman and the foetus or unborn.

Ireland.JPG

Ireland to hold referendum in May on easing abortion ban | Daily Mail Online '
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The Prime Minister hates every second of this effort. He knows that his future in politics are probably down the tube. The Catholic Church is making all sorts of innuendos about moving forward with the Referendum.
 
Removable Mind said:
I consider this referendum as somewhat of a farce, but it's better than maintaining the 1983 "fetal right to life" law. The Catholic Church still has its big toe in the middle of all of this.


Oct 2017 Article from The Atlantic







The Prime Minister hates every second of this effort. He knows that his future in politics are probably down the tube. The Catholic Church is making all sorts of innuendos about moving forward with the Referendum.
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The problem I have with 12 week limit is many women don't even know they are pregnant then. This is mainly due to them being on BC and already having irregular or no periods, having little to no signs or the signs aligning with something else so they are not realized.

I would never support 12, to low and again treats the women as way to unimportant.
 
AGENT J said:
The problem I have with 12 week limit is many women don't even know they are pregnant then. This is mainly due to them being on BC and already having irregular or no periods, having little to no signs or the signs aligning with something else so they are not realized.

I would never support 12, to low and again treats the women as way to unimportant.
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Exactly. That's why I said that I thought this draft of the new law that goes up for a referendum is a farce.
 
Removable Mind said:
Exactly. That's why I said that I thought this draft of the new law that goes up for a referendum is a farce.
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I think a lot of people have ZERO clue about pregnancy its all emotion and ZERO facts, reality or medical science. Its not like the movies.

IF it was based on facts and medical science and had the support of the medical science community i could support down to 20/21 weeks. Thats about it. Anything else is simply treating woman as the lesser way to much in the equation.
 
AGENT J said:
I think a lot of people have ZERO clue about pregnancy its all emotion and ZERO facts, reality or medical science. Its not like the movies.

IF it was based on facts and medical science and had the support of the medical science community i could support down to 20/21 weeks. Thats about it. Anything else is simply treating woman as the lesser way to much in the equation.
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Yeah, but even in Canada where there are zero restrictions it's difficult to find a doctor who'll perform a 20 week plus abortion. I believe that it would be the same here if there were zero restrictions.

So if the majority of women aren't getting abortions after 13 weeks - then why waste the taxpayers' money and the legislative time to even attempt to ban abortion at 20 weeks?

Just today there was headlines that said that the Senate failed to pass a 20 week ban. McConnell said he didn't really think that he had the votes, but was gonna give it a shot anyway.
 
Removable Mind said:
Yeah, but even in Canada where there are zero restrictions it's difficult to find a doctor who'll perform a 20 week plus abortion. I believe that it would be the same here if there were zero restrictions.

So if the majority of women aren't getting abortions after 13 weeks - then why waste the taxpayers' money and the legislative time to even attempt to ban abortion at 20 weeks?

Just today there was headlines that said that the Senate failed to pass a 20 week ban. McConnell said he didn't really think that he had the votes, but was gonna give it a shot anyway.
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Oh i agree, it is basically a waste, numbers wise etc when less than 1.4% of abortions happen after 20 and the ones that do are all about safety and health or major fetal flaws. ANd even if it dropped to 20 i still wouldnt support it UNLESS it had those exceptions in it anyway. so you are right it would pretty much be a waste. :shrug:
 
Removable Mind said:
Yeah, but even in Canada where there are zero restrictions it's difficult to find a doctor who'll perform a 20 week plus abortion. I believe that it would be the same here if there were zero restrictions.

So if the majority of women aren't getting abortions after 13 weeks - then why waste the taxpayers' money and the legislative time to even attempt to ban abortion at 20 weeks?

Just today there was headlines that said that the Senate failed to pass a 20 week ban. McConnell said he didn't really think that he had the votes, but was gonna give it a shot anyway.
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OH yeah and for the record his BS bill was tried on false claims of pain etc. It had ZERO to do with facts and medical science.
 
AGENT J said:
Oh i agree, it is basically a waste, numbers wise etc when less than 1.4% of abortions happen after 20 and the ones that do are all about safety and health or major fetal flaws. ANd even if it dropped to 20 i still wouldnt support it UNLESS it had those exceptions in it anyway. so you are right it would pretty much be a waste. :shrug:
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Yep, I hear ya. My hope still remains with advanced/high tech birth control...like the microchip now being developed for women. It's implantable, programmable and will last up to 15 years. And maybe it's possible that a similar type of technology will be available in the near future for men. :shrug:

The Vatican would hate this....like crazy. It would cut into the church's future collection plates.

And I think such forms of contraceptives needs to be free, worldwide. It would save taxpayers huge sums on a global scale.

Women in third world countries who don't have access to the current types of birth control wouldn't have to have millions of kids who die at early ages from preventable causes. Governments everywhere would need to participate in such an effort, but it would pay off big time.
 
Removable Mind said:
Yep, I hear ya. My hope still remains with advanced/high tech birth control...like the microchip now being developed for women. It's implantable, programmable and will last up to 15 years. And maybe it's possible that a similar type of technology will be available in the near future for men. :shrug:

The Vatican would hate this....like crazy. It would cut into the church's future collection plates.

And I think such forms of contraceptives needs to be free, worldwide. It would save taxpayers huge sums on a global scale.

Women in third world countries who don't have access to the current types of birth control wouldn't have to have millions of kids who die at early ages from preventable causes. Governments everywhere would need to participate in such an effort, but it would pay off big time.
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Well education and technology is where its at, its really the only way to get unwanted births and abortions any lower in reality. Something like .002% of sex results in abortion. Id say we are awesome at not having them.

It makes me sad to think about what goes on in 3rd world countries. another reason why the people in Ireland responsible for thier ban should be so ashamed.
 
I certainly hope they amend the law to allow for abortions in the cases of of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormality.
 
It still makes me wonder tho...if the unborn life is the same as that of the mother or a born person...and all life is sacred ("every sperm is sacred!" Sorry, channeling Monty Python)...why is it acceptable to allow abortion in cases of rape or incest?

How is that decision justified?

For me, I cannot imagine forcing a woman to remain pregnant under any circumstances, certainly even more abominable if she's the victim of a rape. But...the really true, consistent pro-lifers I've seen do not accept anything but the Irish's current policy: only to save the life of the mother.
 
Lursa said:
It still makes me wonder tho...if the unborn life is the same as that of the mother or a born person...and all life is sacred ("every sperm is sacred!" Sorry, channeling Monty Python)...why is it acceptable to allow abortion in cases of rape or incest?

How is that decision justified?

For me, I cannot imagine forcing a woman to remain pregnant under any circumstances, certainly even more abominable if she's the victim of a rape. But...the really true, consistent pro-lifers I've seen do not accept anything but the Irish's current policy: only to save the life of the mother.
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:applaud
 
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