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Should a doctor be forced to perform an abortion or transgender surgery?

Should a doctor be forced to perform an abortion or transgender surgery?


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I don't quite get this topic. If a doctor has studied to have the skills to perform one of these surgeries, then I imagine he was willing to do the surgeries from the start, otherwise why would he have studied them??? Would a situation ever arise where one would actually need to force these doctors to do these surgeries?
 
I wish the rest of Christendom were as thoughtful as yourself. The world would be a better place.

Thanks, I appreciate that but by no means can I claim I'm a good Christian. I do try however.

If we all could be good Christians, the world would be a better place.
 
Abortion and transgender surgery, as a rule, are not needed to save lives.
FOR MOST ABORTION OPPONENTS, the lives in question are those of the unborn. That's why I was making a distinction between lives of people and lives of mere animals, because it is impossible for unborn humans to qualify as persons.

I would like to see Trump push for lawyers to have legal malpractice insurance, like doctors are required to have. Once they are forced to buy insurance and deep pockets appear, the sharks will eat each other.
GOOD IDEA.
 
I would like to see Trump push for lawyers to have legal malpractice insurance, like doctors are required to have. Once they are forced to buy insurance and deep pockets appear, the sharks will eat each other.

Malpractice insurance for attorneys has been around a long time. It's absolutely a necessity. Like any profession or company that provides goods or services, liability and/or malpractice insurance is a must. Attorneys get sued for malpractice just like other people oriented professions like Doctors, Nurses, Dentists, Psychologist, Social Workers, etc. Institutions like hospitals and law firms must have insurance to operate.

Whether an individual is in private practice, or with an organization, they need to protect themselves.
 
I never stated that, I clearly stated several times that it is abortions to save lives.

Thread title and OP includes transgender surgery as examples. I'm responding to that. You came out of left field with not including one.
 
Thread title and OP includes transgender surgery as examples. I'm responding to that. You came out of left field with not including one.

The Title came out of left field by including transgender surgery.

Many made that clear in the beginning of the thread.
 
Thread title and OP includes transgender surgery as examples. I'm responding to that. You came out of left field with not including one.

Well, I already talked about it in another post and secondly, this is the abortion forum, not the transgender surgery forum.
 
The Title came out of left field by including transgender surgery.

Many made that clear in the beginning of the thread.

I want to know how an MD would be "forced"

An MD goes well out of his way to get training to perform transgender surgery. It makes no sense that he would feel forced.

In terms of abortions, they are generally performed at clinics that offer abortions. Why would a doctor hired to perform abortions refuse?

If we are talking outside of those clinics.....how would a physician feel forced? Did he have a contract that said he was required to perform them, and broke contract? That is not being forced, that is signing a contract and ignoring the terms. Also, when you sign on to a hospital, in general there will be some sort of list that says what procedures/surgeries you are cleared to do. This list is generated on the doctors end. Why would he add abortion (or transgender surgery) if he is not ok with doing them?

The one time I could really see a doctor "forced" is if the fetus is certain to die and the mother will not live unless the abortion/csection occurs. (for example, the only real cure for eclampsia is removal of the cause (the fetus). Luckily most of the time it occurs late enough to do a quick c-section and have a reasonably healthy preemie.

The OP has vacated the thread, so there is no way to clarify the circumstances.
 
I want to know how an MD would be "forced"

An MD goes well out of his way to get training to perform transgender surgery. It makes no sense that he would feel forced.

In terms of abortions, they are generally performed at clinics that offer abortions. Why would a doctor hired to perform abortions refuse?

If we are talking outside of those clinics.....how would a physician feel forced? Did he have a contract that said he was required to perform them, and broke contract? That is not being forced, that is signing a contract and ignoring the terms. Also, when you sign on to a hospital, in general there will be some sort of list that says what procedures/surgeries you are cleared to do. This list is generated on the doctors end. Why would he add abortion (or transgender surgery) if he is not ok with doing them?

The one time I could really see a doctor "forced" is if the fetus is certain to die and the mother will not live unless the abortion/csection occurs. (for example, the only real cure for eclampsia is removal of the cause (the fetus). Luckily most of the time it occurs late enough to do a quick c-section and have a reasonably healthy preemie.

The OP has vacated the thread, so there is no way to clarify the circumstances.

Well, if you go to an emergency room at a hospital critically ill due to complications with the pregnancy that will kill the mother if the pregnancy is not ended, you end up in a situation in which an emergency abortion has to take place to save the life of the mother. She cannot be transported to a abortion clinic so that is how a situation could arise in which an emergency abortion is needed.
 
Well, if you go to an emergency room at a hospital critically ill due to complications with the pregnancy that will kill the mother if the pregnancy is not ended, you end up in a situation in which an emergency abortion has to take place to save the life of the mother. She cannot be transported to a abortion clinic so that is how a situation could arise in which an emergency abortion is needed.

I would have to wonder if there is a case in the US where a woman actively dying due to pregnancy (before viability) that would refuse to help the dying woman. If the fetus is not viable and the woman dies....the fetus dies and there will be no baby born anyway.

I think the prolifer MD should think what Jesus would do? Save one or save neither. Hmmmm.....
 
Thanks, I appreciate that but by no means can I claim I'm a good Christian. I do try however.

If we all could be good Christians, the world would be a better place.

You can be a good christian but it's two seperate things. There is nothing about being christian that magically turns assholes or idiots into thoughtful or kind people. In fact, a fundamentalist approach to faith can be a major barrier to "goodness", as we've all noticed.

I think it's better to be good for rational reasons than to accidentally achieve it through faith. You are as good a Christian as posts here and it's not because of Jesus, it's all you, sister.
 
You can be a good christian but it's two seperate things. There is nothing about being christian that magically turns assholes or idiots into thoughtful or kind people. In fact, a fundamentalist approach to faith can be a major barrier to "goodness", as we've all noticed.

I think it's better to be good for rational reasons than to accidentally achieve it through faith. You are as good a Christian as posts here and it's not because of Jesus, it's all you, sister.

Yup, they are 2 separate things. I have recently been in a discussion here with someone who claims morality originated with Jesus. :doh

Morality and good people are not exclusive to Christianity or any religion, by any means.

But thanks.
 
Yup, they are 2 separate things. I have recently been in a discussion here with someone who claims morality originated with Jesus. :doh

Morality and good people are not exclusive to Christianity or any religion, by any means.

But thanks.
I have had that thrust in my face multiple times.

Do you think Jesus would claim such a thing?

I swear the micromanagement of Jesus is a spectacle to behold,
 
I've mentioned before in various Threads here that "head transplant" research is ongoing and we might expect the first such involving humans to happen in the relatively near future. Well, in the more-distant future, we could imagine that the technique is perfected, which raises an interesting possibility that is relevant to this particular Thread....

Let's consider a hypothetical "Mary" who doesn't like being female, and a hypothetical "John" who doesn't like being male. Suppose they agree to get their heads swapped onto each other's bodies? How's that for a gender-change operation? Without actually being any sort of ordinary gender-change operation!

The preceding is even relevant to the Overall Abortion Debate, since abortion opponents typically spout the Stupid Lie that unborn humans qualify as persons. Even though the abortion opponents actually do know what persons truly are. Because in the above transplant scenario, we might imagine Mary changing her name to "Mark", and John changing his name to "Joan" --or can we? If abortion opponents are correct, their bodies represent their personhood, which means that John must take the new name of "Mary" (because his head is now attached to that body), and Mary must take the new name of "John" (because her head is now attached to that body). OR, if abortion opponents are wrong (and of course they are!), persons are minds, and that means the minds of Mary and John are free to change their names to whatever they want.

And, of course, since unborn humans are merely mindless animals, they cannot possibly qualify as persons!
 
Oh good Lord.
 
Oh good Lord.
LIKE IT OR NOT, the Future is Incoming. And aspects of it will inevitably end the Overall Abortion Debate, in favor of pro-choicers, simply because nothing will ever support their claim that unborn humans qualify as persons deserving right-to-life. And nothing will ever change the Fact that unborn humans are mere-animal entities that act worse than parasites, which fully qualifies abortion, at any point during a pregnancy, as "self-defense".
 
I've mentioned before in various Threads here that "head transplant" research is ongoing and we might expect the first such involving humans to happen in the relatively near future. Well, in the more-distant future, we could imagine that the technique is perfected, which raises an interesting possibility that is relevant to this particular Thread....

Let's consider a hypothetical "Mary" who doesn't like being female, and a hypothetical "John" who doesn't like being male. Suppose they agree to get their heads swapped onto each other's bodies? How's that for a gender-change operation? Without actually being any sort of ordinary gender-change operation!

The preceding is even relevant to the Overall Abortion Debate, since abortion opponents typically spout the Stupid Lie that unborn humans qualify as persons. Even though the abortion opponents actually do know what persons truly are. Because in the above transplant scenario, we might imagine Mary changing her name to "Mark", and John changing his name to "Joan" --or can we? If abortion opponents are correct, their bodies represent their personhood, which means that John must take the new name of "Mary" (because his head is now attached to that body), and Mary must take the new name of "John" (because her head is now attached to that body). OR, if abortion opponents are wrong (and of course they are!), persons are minds, and that means the minds of Mary and John are free to change their names to whatever they want.

And, of course, since unborn humans are merely mindless animals, they cannot possibly qualify as persons!

At first glance, your post seems far-fetched, and science fiction like. But if we really give serious consideration about "persons are minds" and "bodies are represent personhood", I find that description to be a reasonable way to define what a "person" is. One might also see the body as a vehicle for the mind. I have to agree that the mind is our person.

Another example of that would be if Stephen Hawkin's head could be removed from his already dead body and connected to a technology to provide a life support system for his head. And he continued to use the current technology that he uses to communicate, the essence of who Mr. Hawkin is, or if you prefer, the living "person" we know as Stephen Hawkin, would still exist. In that state of existence, if someone purposely turned off the life support without his consent, Mr. Hawkin, the person, would die, and I believe that act would be considered as the murder of "a person". To take it a step farther, if only Mr. Hawkin's brain could be placed in some type of life support system, which included a means for Hawkin to communicate, the person of Mr. Hawkin would still exist. The brain, in advanced stages of development, allows for the manifestation of "person" to occur. The same argument made using any other part, or in whole, of Mr. Hawkin's "body"...wouldn't hold up that the person continues to exist.

Over the course of my life I've been to a number of funerals of people close to me. When I saw a body lying in a coffin, I didn't see "the person" that I knew, but rather an object, which represented the "person" I once knew. In other words, the biological component that manifested and maintained the existence of the mind, which can be the only true identifiable link to the actual "person", also died.

The "person" (or the mind) is only capable of giving credence to Aristotle's phrase, "The Whole is Greater than the Sum of its Parts". Our minds, our person, is the only capable part of our existence, which makes us able to be more that what our physical selves are capable of. Some might see this as our ability to create ideas and objects beyond our physical selves. This ability make us more than than the sum of our parts.
 
Why? Just why?
 
At first glance, your post seems far-fetched, and science fiction like.
ONLY BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE YET. Sometimes things get done because of science fiction --that is, some science-fiction writer thought of it first. The most famous example of that is probably "the Clarke orbit", first envisioned by Arthur C. Clarke in the 1940s, it is the place where all the geosynchronous satellites sit in a 24-hour orbit, "stationary" above the same place on Earth all the time.

But if we really give serious consideration about "persons are minds"
WE ABSOLUTELY DO. See this link about brain death? Search the page for the phrase "death certificate" and read the context containing it. A whole and still-alive adult human body, except for the brain being dead, is not a person deserving rights! An unborn human might have a living brain, but that brain isn't doing anything that plenty of ordinary animals cannot match. Persons, however, are capable of things that ordinary animals cannot match!

and "bodies are represent personhood",
NOT QUITE WHAT I WROTE. I was talking about abortion opponents erroneously claiming that bodies represent personhood. The error should be obvious (see just above about the living but brain-dead adult body). And for more proof that it is most certainly not our human bodies that allow us to declare ourselves superior to ordinary animals, see this video.

I find that description to be a reasonable way to define what a "person" is. One might also see the body as a vehicle for the mind. I have to agree that the mind is our person.
THANK YOU!
 
If the doctor works for a hospital that allows abortions to be performed yes, he should be fired if he refuses. He is free to go work for a private religious hospital that fits his religious beliefs.

That is wildly assuming that every doctor that works in a hospital that provides abortions is of that specialty. Or do you want to force a brain surgeon to perform abortions?

The truth is that you cannot force any doctor to perform any specific surgery, abortion or otherwise. And besides, most women seeking an abortion go to one of the planned parenthood funded baby killing clinics.
 
That is wildly assuming that every doctor that works in a hospital that provides abortions is of that specialty. Or do you want to force a brain surgeon to perform abortions?

The truth is that you cannot force any doctor to perform any specific surgery, abortion or otherwise. And besides, most women seeking an abortion go to one of the planned parenthood funded baby killing clinics.

I’ve already answered that question and that scenario but if you are too lazy to find where I answered that is in this thread, I’m not going to bother with you now. Try reading for once and you’ll have the answer. Don’t be a Trump, actually read instead.
 
LIKE IT OR NOT, the Future is Incoming. And aspects of it will inevitably end the Overall Abortion Debate, in favor of pro-choicers, simply because nothing will ever support their claim that unborn humans qualify as persons deserving right-to-life. And nothing will ever change the Fact that unborn humans are mere-animal entities that act worse than parasites, which fully qualifies abortion, at any point during a pregnancy, as "self-defense".

Don't you think it is 1000 times more likely that before head transplantation is a reality that we would solve the whole unintended pregnancy issue? That is what my "oh good Lord" is about.

Don't you think it will be even more improvements in birth control that will shape the debate?

Bringing head transplantation to the abortion debate is about as pertinent as artificial wombs as a solution to abortion.
 
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