Pence: Trump is the most pro-life president in American history[W:88]

Crovax said:

Apparently you dont understand the due process clause. That is the clause that incorporates the bill of rights to be personal rights, so pretty much every case is decided based on it. And there are several different areas of privacy that protected in the constitution like in the 1st, 4th and 5th amendment which is what a lot of SCOTUS cases talk about when talking about privacy. However "the right to privacy" described in Roe falls under the 9th amendment and has only been applied in about 6 cases. No matter the amendment all of them fall under the due process clause if it is a local or state entity that is abridging those rights.

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Removable Mind said:

I clearly understand both "Procedural and Substantive Due Process". And you'll find no Justices who deny that the Right to Privacy, related to any Amendment, is "inherent to the constitution.

States can't undermine the laws of the land. When you see states blatantly attempting to abridge the right to privacy in order to meet a political agenda- you'll see higher Circuit court interventions.

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Crovax said:

Again there is no right to general privacy. There are areas of privacy protected by the constitution but not an all encompassing right to privacy. Just look at all the problems drones are causing if you doubt the lack of general privacy right.

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Bucky said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ident-american-history-pence-says/1046812001/

I think the first key for Trump is getting the Republicans to approve the bill to ban abortions after 20-weeks.

* Research and science shows a fetus feels pain after 20 weeks
* The majority of Americans want to ban abortion after 20 weeks
* The only countries in the world that do not ban abortion after 20 weeks are the U.S and 6 other countries that include North Korea and China.

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Bucky said:

The fundamental question we need to ask ourselves is are we going to treat a fetus that is 1-5 weeks old the same as a fetus 20+ weeks old? A fetus 20 weeks old is capable of living and surviving on its own. Banning abortions after 20-weeks is the right thing to do.

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Crovax said:

Apparently you dont understand the due process clause. That is the clause that incorporates the bill of rights to be personal rights, so pretty much every case is decided based on it. And there are several different areas of privacy that protected in the constitution like in the 1st, 4th and 5th amendment which is what a lot of SCOTUS cases talk about when talking about privacy. However "the right to privacy" described in Roe falls under the 9th amendment and has only been applied in about 6 cases. No matter the amendment all of them fall under the due process clause if it is a local or state entity that is abridging those rights.

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Lursa said:

If late term abortion takes place, after 20 weeks, Drs can administer anesthetic so that the fetus feels no pain.

/thread

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Scrabaholic said:

If the majority wanted to bring back slavery, should it be brought back?

I am so glad I live in a country where doctors make medical decisions.

Abortion should not be banned at any stage.

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Bucky said:

Yes, because we live in a democracy.

And people like you have no respect for science or doctors. It seems you enjoy fat-shaming our president or want to ban people from twitter????

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AGENT J said:

We dont live in a democracy.

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Bucky said:

You keeping bobbing and weaving.

First you claim a fetus cannot feel pain, and now are talking about anesthetics?

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Lursa said:

No. Please try to read more accurately.

Medical research has found that fetuses at 20 weeks do not feel pain.

Late term abortions take place *later* :lamo and after a certain point, a fetus can feel pain. In those cases, Drs. can use anesthetic so that they do not feel pain.

It's hard to explain it more simply than that. Please tell me: did you understand this ^^? Just to confirm?

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Bucky said:

We do. I know you preferred the authoritarian rule under Obama but in a Democracy the people have a voice and they have spoken.

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AGENT J said:

:2rofll:
did you just double down on the factually wrong and retarded claim that we live in a democracy? no we dont.

we live in a republic genius. A republic has democracy within it but its not a direct democracy. Its a representative republic.

SO NO if 51% of the country thought that women should be allowed to be raped or blacks should return to slavery that doesnt mean it should happen and can. Just like when the vast majority was not for interracial marriage, didnt matter because we are not a direct democracy we have a Constitution .

thank you AGAIN for factually proving you know nothing about the united states, laws, rights or the Constitution.

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Bucky said:

You are making claims that cannot be backed up.

Plenty of medical experts have proven that a fetus can feel claim before 20 weeks. Some 4-5 weeks.

You are wrong.

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Lursa said:

I did back it up, I provided a link from JAMA, the pre-eminent, peer-reviewed medical journal.

Links to studies for your claim please. And reactive to sensation is not feeling pain. Dont forget to read the studies enough so that you understand the distinction.

And again...why does fetal pain matter if Drs administer anesthesia in later term abortions? Gee, I just cant let that go, because it's completely relevant to the legitimacy of the OP. :mrgreen: (silliness about lobsters notwithstanding)

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Bucky said:

We live a democracy. Stop with this nonsense Agent J.

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AGENT J said:

FACTS > than your severely uneducated ignorance
but Please keep reposting, its AWESOME!

opcorn2:

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Bucky said:

Here is a pdf:

http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF15A104.pdf

You can also read this book:

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...v=onepage&q=anesthesia and fetal pain&f=false

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Lursa said:

So, the "Family Research Council," founded to fight legal abortion, is a useless rag.

And in the other link on fetal anesthesia, I didnt see anything to dispute the fact that fetal pain is not an issue during abortion. Seemed to confirm what I said.

Again...just how low would you like to take discourse here? You are humiliating yourself. I provided a leading peer-reviewed journal article. And there are many more legitimately researched ones out there. You gave me a pro-life rag.

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Bucky said:

We live a democracy. Stop with this nonsense Agent J.

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Bucky said:

Any group you disagree with = useless rag

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Bucky said:

Yes, because we live in a democracy.

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And people like you have no respect for science or doctors. It seems you enjoy fat-shaming our president or want to ban people from twitter????

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Lursa said:

So, the "Family Research Council," founded to fight legal abortion, is a useless rag.

And in the other link on fetal anesthesia, I didnt see anything to dispute the fact that fetal pain is not an issue during abortion. Seemed to confirm what I said.

Again...just how low would you like to take discourse here? You are humiliating yourself. I provided a leading peer-reviewed journal article. And there are many more legitimately researched ones out there. You gave me a pro-life rag.

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But Anand was not through with making observations. As NICU technology improved, the preterm infants he cared for grew younger and younger — with gestational ages of 24 weeks, 23, 22 — and he noticed that even the most premature babies grimaced when pricked by a needle. “So I said to myself, Could it be that this pain system is developed and functional before the baby is born?” he told me in the fall. It was not an abstract question: fetuses as well as newborns may now go under the knife. Once highly experimental, fetal surgery — to remove lung tumors, clear blocked urinary tracts, repair malformed diaphragms — is a frequent occurrence at a half-dozen fetal treatment centers around the country, and could soon become standard care for some conditions diagnosed prenatally like spina bifida. Whether the fetus feels pain is a question that matters to the doctor wielding the scalpel.

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