• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process?

L

lefty louie

Banned
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
2,435
Reaction score
357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

Wait...you can be held responsible for support for a child that isn't yours? I believe that's wrong...
 
No, because they are not the ones whose bodies are impacted by pregnancy.
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

You did have a say. You had unprotected sex. You shouldn't have done that if you didn't want to pay for 1/2 the care and feeding of the expectant mother, 1/2 the medical bills and 1/2 of the cost of getting him/her to 18 years of age. Even then you will never be "equal" because you didn't carry the child for 9 months. If you have any disagreements with the mother, you should try to be really nice and work them out or get a lawyer.
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

If she can dump it for lifestyle reasons, why not you? If you cannot, you should not owe support.
 
iliveonramen said:
Wait...you can be held responsible for support for a child that isn't yours? I believe that's wrong...
Click to expand...
Colorado man forced to pay child support despite DNA test results | WGNO
That's just one case, there are many others.

trblmkr said:
You did have a say. You had unprotected sex. You shouldn't have done that if you didn't want to pay for 1/2 the care and feeding of the expectant mother, 1/2 the medical bills and 1/2 of the cost of getting him/her to 18 years of age. Even then you will never be "equal" because you didn't carry the child for 9 months. If you have any disagreements with the mother, you should try to be really nice and work them out or get a lawyer.
Click to expand...

This isn't me, it's a case for those fathers that want the child. You are assuming a great deal, you assume they had unprotected sex, maybe the birth control failed. Maybe they planed on the child and the woman then later backed out? Do you feel the same way when it comes to abortion, that they should have used birth control?
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

You do have a say in the process... pre-conception.
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...
A man can have the right to try to convince a woman to abort a pregnancy. Other than that, his best option is to reliably use contraception (maybe more than one type at a time, like condom+vasectomy), to prevent needing the right to try to convince a woman to abort a pregnancy.
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

Given the ability women have to regulate their fertility as well as their ability to abort I say that men should need to opt in to being fathers unless there is a marriage. Currently we can tell the father at the 8 week of pregnancy mark with DNA testing if there is any doubt, that is good enough....If the woman wants assistance in raising the kid then she should need to line up support from the sperm donor, if she does not get it then she either aborts or does the best she can with her own means or welfare. I would do like a lot of Europeans and have there be government assistance to all kids, I forget what they call this, a few thousand dollars a year that every kid in the country gets through the parent(s).
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

When a man can carry a fetus to term and deliver, he has a say. As long as it is the womans body it's her choice.
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

How would that work, legally? It's not remotely legal to force a woman to remain pregnant or have an abortion and that wont change.

So what do you propose that would make it equal?

And btw, do you think that something based on biology *can be* equal?
 
iliveonramen said:
Wait...you can be held responsible for support for a child that isn't yours? I believe that's wrong...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there is a scenario where this happens and IMO it is BS and should be changed. If a man is married to a woman and gets a divorce, and finds out that one or more of the kids isnt his, he is usually still forced to pay child support.
 
Lursa said:
How would that work, legally? It's not remotely legal to force a woman to remain pregnant or have an abortion and that wont change.

So what do you propose that would make it equal?

And btw, do you think that something based on biology *can be* equal?
Click to expand...

I'm not proposing an answer, just saying that if a man can be forced to support a child that isn't his, why can't a father force a mother to birth a child (so long as there is no foreseeable health issues) so that he can take and raise his offspring, after all, he is an equal partner, no?
 
iliveonramen said:
Wait...you can be held responsible for support for a child that isn't yours? I believe that's wrong...
Click to expand...

If your wife gets pregnant by another man during your marriage to her, I BELIEVE the child is considered yours in the courtroom.
 
lefty louie said:
Should the fathers of the unborn have a say in the process? We are held responsible for support, even when the child turns out not to be biologically yours, so why don't we get an equal say?
Click to expand...

No one should have a say.
 
lefty louie said:
I'm not proposing an answer, just saying that if a man can be forced to support a child that isn't his, why can't a father force a mother to birth a child (so long as there is no foreseeable health issues) so that he can take and raise his offspring, after all, he is an equal partner, no?
Click to expand...

A) Women die or suffer irreparable health consequences (stroke, aneurysm, kidney failure, etc) during pregnancy and childbirth, and those are the ones unpredictable and non-preventable. 86,700/yr in the US. So no, no one should ever demand a woman take these risks against their will.

B) He contributed equally to the creation of the unborn. His contribution after that is zero and her's is 100% up to and including the possible loss of her life. It impacts her health, her ability to continue an education, to work, etc.

So no, he's not an equal partner.
 
lefty louie said:
why can't a father force a mother to birth a child (so long as there is no foreseeable health issues) s
Click to expand...

Just curious. Do you think that avoidance of child support justifies women losing all their rights and protections under the Constitution?
 
lefty louie said:
I'm not proposing an answer, just saying that if a man can be forced to support a child that isn't his, why can't a father force a mother to birth a child (so long as there is no foreseeable health issues) so that he can take and raise his offspring, after all, he is an equal partner, no?
Click to expand...

Because it's not his body that is pregnant. Even the "smoothest" of pregnancies have a big impact on a woman's body, and can turn on a dime and kill her.
 
Morally yes, it's a decision that should be made jointly. Legally, no; abortions are a matter of bodily sovereignty. Men should be able to "abort" fiscal responsibility for a child within the same term limits that are applied to women.
 
Lursa said:
Unfortunately, there is a scenario where this happens and IMO it is BS and should be changed. If a man is married to a woman and gets a divorce, and finds out that one or more of the kids isnt his, he is usually still forced to pay child support.
Click to expand...

That is very wrong. That would be an infuriating circumstance.
 
MaggieD said:
If your wife gets pregnant by another man during your marriage to her, I BELIEVE the child is considered yours in the courtroom.
Click to expand...
I cheated on you now pay for it!

That is a ridiculous concept. Pre-DNA testing sure, otherwise how would you ever know. Now, with the ability to determine if someone is the father?
 
Here's how it should work, IMO.

1. If the kid isn't the mans, biologically, he's off the hook. Completely. Ball is in woman's court. Marriage or no, doesn't matter.

2. If the man wants an abortion, and the woman doesnt, tough ****. It's the woman's body, her choice. The man should be then legally obligated to pay half of medical for pregnancy and birth, including prenatal, Lamaze, etc. In addition, should the woman desire it, the man would have to accompany her to her Dr visits, classes, etc. BUT. Once the child is born, she's on her own, unless the father wants joint custody. Pay to play, as it were.

2. If the man wants to keep the child, but the woman wants to abort, again, her body, her choice. But in no way should the man be responsible to pay for any of it. It's a cruel world that would someone to pay to end a pregnancy for a future child they WANTED to have.
 
iliveonramen said:
I cheated on you now pay for it!

That is a ridiculous concept. Pre-DNA testing sure, otherwise how would you ever know. Now, with the ability to determine if someone is the father?
Click to expand...

It appears to be a state by state law... Following is Michigan’s...

Paternity of Children Born During a Marriagetop

Sometimes a married woman gives birth to a child whose biological father is not her husband. Although the husband is not the child’s biological parent, he is the child’s legal parent under Michigan law. The husband is the legal parent of every child born or conceived during the marriage.

The reverse is not true. If a man fathers another woman’s child while he is married, his wife is not the legal mother of that child.

As the legal father of the children born during his marriage, a husband may have custody and parenting time. He may also be responsible for providing child support and health insurance.

The biological father of such a child has no parental rights or responsibilities for the child.
Click to expand...

My next door neighbor’s son is very much in love with a young woman who parent’s own a bar and where she bartends. She’s expecting in March. His child, apparently. It’s been a rocky ride. She breaks up. Back together. She breaks up. Back together. Marriage date set before the birth as of now.

I desperately wanted to tell his mom, a friend of mine, that they should wait until after the baby is born and a DNA test is done before they marry. I did tell her, finally, but I don’t think she even understood. He is star struck. She obviously is not. But he does have a good job. I could see this absolutely ruining his life. I can picture, “She breaks up after marriage. He starts writing checks.”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom