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imaging incubators

D_NATURED said:
Yes, I do accuse you of not being thoughtful, like when you just claimed that embryos are "persons". They are not. My problem here is the confidence with which you say untrue things are common knowledge. Dogma is not knowledge, it's rhetorical feces.
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Holy Hell... I never said that embryo's are persons. Stop making **** up to get upset about FFS.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Holy Hell... I never said that embryo's are persons. Stop making **** up to get upset about FFS.
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In post #14 you wrote:

You are arguing in an abortion forum. If you are this confused over one of the most basic aspects of the argument... are fetus's persons... then....
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What I gathered from that remark is that you and EVERYONE else thinks fetuses are persons. If that was your claim, I still disagree.

Furthermore, I'm not upset, I'm just disagreeing with your claims that everybody knows or thinks that life begins at conception, that establishing a point where life begins is relevant to women's rights and that fetuses are persons.

I have no personal disdain for you but I do think that there is a lot of really dangerous fetus dogma out there that has to be confronted by someone. And, I believe that the anti-choice position is lacking in thoughtfulness when it uses any of the arguments you've already made. That's all.
 
D_NATURED said:
In post #14 you wrote:



What I gathered from that remark is that you and EVERYONE else thinks fetuses are persons. If that was your claim, I still disagree.

Furthermore, I'm not upset, I'm just disagreeing with your claims that everybody knows or thinks that life begins at conception, that establishing a point where life begins is relevant to women's rights and that fetuses are persons.

I have no personal disdain for you but I do think that there is a lot of really dangerous fetus dogma out there that has to be confronted by someone. And, I believe that the anti-choice position is lacking in thoughtfulness when it uses any of the arguments you've already made. That's all.
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That is not my argument. My argument was that one of the most basic arguments of abortion is this: Is the fetus a person.

That said... life of the individual human begins at conception. That is not debatable, but rather, scientific fact.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is not my argument. My argument was that one of the most basic arguments of abortion is this: Is the fetus a person.

That said... life of the individual human begins at conception. That is not debatable, but rather, scientific fact.
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This issue is full of distractions. Don't you understand that the opponents of choice are not honest enough to admit that when life starts is irrelevant. Contrary to your persistent claim, a fetus a zygote and an embryo are not individuals. Not until the fetus no longer threatens a woman do I consider its individuality. To tenaciously focus on what a fetus might be is to ignore what a woman is. I still think you offer rhetorical support to the enemies of women.
 
D_NATURED said:
This issue is full of distractions. Don't you understand that the opponents of choice are not honest enough to admit that when life starts is irrelevant. Contrary to your persistent claim, a fetus a zygote and an embryo are not individuals. Not until the fetus no longer threatens a woman do I consider its individuality. To tenaciously focus on what a fetus might be is to ignore what a woman is. I still think you offer rhetorical support to the enemies of women.
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Dude... I am pro-choice and my argument is about when life begins for the new life not what it might become... :lol:

Holy Hell...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Dude... I am pro-choice and my argument is about when life begins for the new life not what it might become... :lol:

Holy Hell...
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Dude, I gathered you are pro choice but we are playing into the hands of fetal extremists when we don't refine our messaging. To say that an "individual" life begins at conception is to declare victory for the pro-life way of thinking. It is magical thinking to consider an individual to be something that thrives within, feeding upon the resources of an ACTUAL individual with a name, identity, history, age and everything that comes with being post-vaginal. My only beef is with the reckless agreement with the morons on the right that a fetus is an individual. When something that I grow in my body that eats my food and ****s into my bloodstream, when it consumes me or dies at MY whim, it doesn't get the right to be called an individual by anyone.

We do women and the pro-choice argument a disservice not to have a more thoughtful perspective on individuality and the actual, real world, consequences thereof. The alternative is to suffer the consequences of letting religious nuts determine public health policy and oppress women.
 
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