• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Banning abortion after 20 weeks passed by the House

How about the pain of doubt and uncertainty as the mother contemplates the murder of her unborn.
AS IMPOSSIBLE AS ABORTION OPPONENTS CARING FOR THE BORN. The word "murder" only applies to the killing of persons, not to the killing of unborn human animal entities as unwanted as mosquito or rat animal entities.

The soul is conscious at conception although the memory is difficult to access.
A STUPID LIE, COMPOUNDED WITH IDIOCY. By definition of the word "immortal", it is as impossible for physical events like death to affect souls as it is impossible for physical events like conception to affect souls. Thus if souls exist at all, they exist entirely independently of human bodies, just as ordinary automobiles can exist entirely independently of drivers. We are not stupid enough to try to drive autos that are under construction and unable to go anywhere; why should souls be stupid enough to enter human bodies that are under construction and unable to do anything? (The "compounded with idiocy" is the notion that there would exist a memory of something that isn't going to happen, like a soul entering a human body at conception.)

Much unconscious trauma is stored in the personality from the mother having sex during pregnancy which restricts the flow of oxygen to the fetus.
PROVE THAT. Your mere claims are worthless without evidence (or even logic --lots of women can have sex during pregnancy without suffering a shortage of oxygen).
 
I was just guessing on the hospital stay. it was 45 years ago. And my wife corrected me on the weight. She was 2 lbs 6 oz.

At 2 lbs 6 ounces, there is no way she was only 24 weeks along. That weight is closer to 28-29 weeks....which would match your baby's hospital stay.

I apologize for the scrutiny, but after being on these boards for so long, discrepancies like that stand out like a sore thumb.
 
At 2 lbs 6 ounces, there is no way she was only 24 weeks along. That weight is closer to 28-29 weeks....which would match your baby's hospital stay.

I apologize for the scrutiny, but after being on these boards for so long, discrepancies like that stand out like a sore thumb.

Six months from the day of conception. That is a fact. I don't know what babies are supposed to weigh, but the timeline and weight are correct.

FYI; I Googled this since you brought it up. Six months is 2 lbs give or take a few ounces, and about 12 inches in length. So that fits what I remember exactly.
 
Last edited:
The difference between a baby and a fetus is one is wanted and the other is not.

There's probably truth to this, but only in terms of informal usage.

A woman or family looking forward to a new member of the family is of course looking forward to that 'baby.' That is what they picture...a babe in arms, swaddled and cooing. And such optimistic and positive feelings encourage a mother to be to take better care of herself, eat well, take pre-natal vitamins, not do things dangerous to the unborn, etc etc. Win-win all around.
 
There's probably truth to this, but only in terms of informal usage.

A woman or family looking forward to a new member of the family is of course looking forward to that 'baby.' That is what they picture...a babe in arms, swaddled and cooing. And such optimistic and positive feelings encourage a mother to be to take better care of herself, eat well, take pre-natal vitamins, not do things dangerous to the unborn, etc etc. Win-win all around.

The laws in most states also consider it a baby. If I'm driving drunk and I kill a pregnant woman and her unborn child, I will be charged in both. If it is just tissue and not human, how can a person be charged with manslaughter for killing it? Can't have it both ways.

Personally, I think abortion should be legal until they're 18 years old.... :)
 
The laws in most states also consider it a baby. If I'm driving drunk and I kill a pregnant woman and her unborn child, I will be charged in both. If it is just tissue and not human, how can a person be charged with manslaughter for killing it? Can't have it both ways.

Personally, I think abortion should be legal until they're 18 years old.... :)

No they dont consider it a baby, legally it is still the unborn and legally it's not a person. Those cases are treated more like property violations and consider the damage done to *the mother* and sometimes also to the state. (The state may take an interest in the unborn after viability).
 
The laws in most states also consider it a baby. If I'm driving drunk and I kill a pregnant woman and her unborn child, I will be charged in both. If it is just tissue and not human, how can a person be charged with manslaughter for killing it? Can't have it both ways.

That doesn't happen in my country, but it's the same principle as if you kill my dog, you will be charged with a crime. Yet I can take her to the vet and have her put down for any reason.
 
That doesn't happen in my country, but it's the same principle as if you kill my dog, you will be charged with a crime. Yet I can take her to the vet and have her put down for any reason.

That's how we treat abortion here,too.
 
Six months from the day of conception. That is a fact. I don't know what babies are supposed to weigh, but the timeline and weight are correct.

FYI; I Googled this since you brought it up. Six months is 2 lbs give or take a few ounces, and about 12 inches in length. So that fits what I remember exactly.

Google 24 weeks and you will find out why I was skeptical. https://www.babycenter.com/average-fetal-length-weight-chart

24 weeks (if the baby survives.....) is a dicey time. The baby will not just have feeding issues...but huge breathing problems that will need to be reconciled.

Near 30 weeks (given the weight....about 29 weeks) is 90 plus percent survivable with decent medical care. 24 weeks 40 years ago was more than dicey.

Part of the problem is that if people are counseling others about an abortion situation....they will use personal stories to "help". If a "miracle baby" (surviving at 24 weeks is oft seen as a miracle)is being touted......I just hope the info is real.

I am happy your child grew up well and went on to have her own family. That is a blessed thing.

But this is a forum where members are used to inaccurate information being presented, so we are more than sensitive to it.
 
Google 24 weeks and you will find out why I was skeptical. https://www.babycenter.com/average-fetal-length-weight-chart

24 weeks (if the baby survives.....) is a dicey time. The baby will not just have feeding issues...but huge breathing problems that will need to be reconciled.

Near 30 weeks (given the weight....about 29 weeks) is 90 plus percent survivable with decent medical care. 24 weeks 40 years ago was more than dicey.

Part of the problem is that if people are counseling others about an abortion situation....they will use personal stories to "help". If a "miracle baby" (surviving at 24 weeks is oft seen as a miracle)is being touted......I just hope the info is real.

I am happy your child grew up well and went on to have her own family. That is a blessed thing.

But this is a forum where members are used to inaccurate information being presented, so we are more than sensitive to it.

Well, I gave you accurate information. With today's medicine, 24 weeks does seem viable. Maybe back then it was a miracle. If I were to counsel someone on abortion, my advice would be to have it as early in the pregnancy as possible. Better yet, use the morning after pill. Or just practice safe sex.
 
Well, I gave you accurate information. With today's medicine, 24 weeks does seem viable. Maybe back then it was a miracle. If I were to counsel someone on abortion, my advice would be to have it as early in the pregnancy as possible. Better yet, use the morning after pill. Or just practice safe sex.

Again....2 pounds six ounces and 24 weeks cannot be accurate.

Babies who are born at 24 weeks will not stay in the hospital for a month and a half. It will much much longer than that.

Your height/weight/gestational age/ length of stay in hospital do not jive.

And frankly....I know of no parent of a premature baby that does not know exactly the weight. It is pretty dang important. You have already wavered on weight.

And I believe you said the height was 12 inches....which does not come close to matching the 2 lbs 6 ounce weight.
 
Again....2 pounds six ounces and 24 weeks cannot be accurate.

Babies who are born at 24 weeks will not stay in the hospital for a month and a half. It will much much longer than that.

Your height/weight/gestational age/ length of stay in hospital do not jive.

And frankly....I know of no parent of a premature baby that does not know exactly the weight. It is pretty dang important. You have already wavered on weight.

And I believe you said the height was 12 inches....which does not come close to matching the 2 lbs 6 ounce weight.

Well, that's what it was. I frankly could care less what you believe.
 
I'm a Conservative Moderate, I am Pro-choice, I don't want Government involved in anyone's life other than public safety, infrastructure and upholding Laws.

However if you're going to have an Abortion it needs to be done ASAP, not 8 months later!
 
I'm a Conservative Moderate, I am Pro-choice, I don't want Government involved in anyone's life other than public safety, infrastructure and upholding Laws.

However if you're going to have an Abortion it needs to be done ASAP, not 8 months later!


Women do not abort at 8 months.

In fact abortions past 20 weeks are almost all because of medical reasons. Doctors perform ultra sounds at 18 to 20 weeks gestation to determine fetal defects. That only gives the parents and doctor a couple of weeks to perform more tests and make a decision if fetal defects were found.

Most states ban abortions after 24 weeks even if the unborn is so malformed it will not survive or will only live a few minutes or hours.
 
Well, that's what it was. I frankly could care less what you believe.

So you are sticking with 12 inches, and 2 pounds six ounces at 24 weeks.

Wow.
 
I'm a Conservative Moderate, I am Pro-choice, I don't want Government involved in anyone's life other than public safety, infrastructure and upholding Laws.

However if you're going to have an Abortion it needs to be done ASAP, not 8 months later!

I would almost bet my life that literally not woman aborts her baby at 8 months... :lol:
 
How about the pain of doubt and uncertainty as the mother contemplates the murder of her unborn.

The soul is conscious at conception although the memory is difficult to access.

Much unconscious trauma is stored in the personality from the mother having sex during pregnancy which restricts the flow of oxygen to the fetus.

Whoa, hey maybe quit drinking that Michigan water for a few days huh?
 
I don’t know about pain, but at 20 weeks viability may be presumed. At least there has been incidence of survival at 20 weeks.

No, there hasn't. The earliest is 21 weeks and five days actual gestation, which is 23 weeks and five days LMP (how doctors calculate gestation).
 
Women do not abort at 8 months.

In fact abortions past 20 weeks are almost all because of medical reasons. Doctors perform ultra sounds at 18 to 20 weeks gestation to determine fetal defects. That only gives the parents and doctor a couple of weeks to perform more tests and make a decision if fetal defects were found.

Most states ban abortions after 24 weeks even if the unborn is so malformed it will not survive or will only live a few minutes or hours.

Why ban after 24 weeks, if it’s okay at 21? It’s just a few cells more.
 
I don’t know about pain, but at 20 weeks viability may be presumed. At least there has been incidence of survival at 20 weeks.

Factually, medically, wrong. There have been none at 20 weeks.

Not only that, the odds of a fully functioning brain and lungs are also nil...lifetime damage is the rule for the super-early (21+weeks) preemies.

But that's better than dead, right? Quantity before quality of life?
 
Why ban after 24 weeks, if it’s okay at 21? It’s just a few cells more.

It's 'ok' at any time. The point is, no women have elective abortions at 21 or 24 weeks.

So no laws are needed.
 
It's 'ok' at any time. The point is, no women have elective abortions at 21 or 24 weeks.

So no laws are needed.

I just saw a statistic that put the yearly numbers around 13.000 plus 21 and above.
 
I just saw a statistic that put the yearly numbers around 13.000 plus 21 and above.

As I mentioned abortions past 20 weeks are almost always because of fetal birth defects or to prevent irreparable damage to major bodilily damage such as stroke, heart attack, paralysis from the neck down, kidney or liver damage of the woman if the pregnancy continued.

As of 2013, over 22,000 Texas babies are born each year with one or more major structural malformations or chromosomal anomalies.
From:

About Birth Defects in Texas
Texas.gov › dshs › birthdefects › about

Over 22,000 born in the year of 2013 in the state of Texas born with major birth defects

Those numbers do not reflect the 13,000 abortions for major birth defects in 50 states.
 
It's 'ok' at any time. The point is, no women have elective abortions at 21 or 24 weeks.

So no laws are needed.

I just saw a statistic that put the yearly numbers around 13.000 plus 21 and above.

Sooooo, you missed the key word there. "elective."

Now...how many of that 13,000 are elective? Hmm?

Those 13,000 would be "medically necessary" abortions. Are you also against those?
 
Back
Top Bottom