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Pro-Lifers: What about frozen embryos?

Lord of Planar said:
For embryonic stem cell research, they continue the growing process, past the point needed for impregnation.
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It seems you are mistaken

From the following:
Embryonic stem cells, as their name suggests, are derived from embryos. Most embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos that develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro—in an in vitro fertilization clinic—and then donated for research purposes with informed consent of the donors. They are not derived from eggs fertilized in a woman's body.
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https://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/3.htm
 
Scrabaholic said:
Do I take it you would refuse any cure found through embryonic stem cell research if you had a disease they found a cure for that way?
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They don't need embryonic stem cells, and have had advances with adult stem cells.
 
minnie616 said:
They are only allowed to grow pre embryos for ten days I think.

Great medical strides have been made recently with use of fetal/embryonic stem cells.

This is one such breakthrough :

From Science News:



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160907082248.htm


And from a 2017 Spinal Cord Journal :


https://www.spinalcord.com/blog/first-paralyzed-man-treated-with-stem-cells-has-regained-movement


First Paralyzed Man Treated With Stem Cells Has Regained Movement
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You are confusing adult stem cell research with embryonic stem cell research.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The discussion is about embryos.
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No it is not. The discussion is about the red herring of an argument used by pro olifers to create an arbitrary point of where life begins. Just because you do not like the fallacies of pro life arguments pointed out does not mean you get to set the goal post.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This question is just for those who think that embryos should have human rights and that abortion should be illegal.

If you got your way, what do you think should happen to frozen embryos? Is it ok to destroy unused ones? Should the biological mother be forced to bring each of them to term? Should prisoners be forced to bring them to term or offer them time off if they do? What if the frozen embryo is tested and has a genetic defect? Should someone still be forced to bring it to term?

"Fozen embryo" may not be the right term but I am basically talking about any fertilized human egg that is not currently inside a womb.
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Frozen embryos aren't "dead", just frozen, so...let it go.
 
Lord of Planar said:
You are confusing adult stem cell research with embryonic stem cell research.
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No I'm not confusing adult stem cells from embryonic ones.


Lord of Planar said:
They don't need embryonic stem cells, and have had advances with adult stem cells.
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They needed embryonic stem cells. if they could Adult stem cells they would have used adult stem cells which are much easier to come by.

Did you even read the article?
The National Spinal Cord Injury Statistical Center states that “each year there are approximately 17,000 new cases of spinal cord injury in the United States.” This study is just one example of how regenerative medicine is bringing hope to those who had thought they would never be able to move their limbs again. The procedure that Kris took part in was a part of a phase 1/2a clinical trial evaluating the safety of the doses being given to the patients. The AST-OPC1 cells being injected are developed by the Asterias Biotherapeutics based in Fremont, CA. These cells come from the embryonic stem cells that are found in the brain and the spinal cord.
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DarkWizard12 said:
Frozen embryos aren't "dead", just frozen, so...let it go.
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Once the owners no longer want to pay the fee to keep them frozen and then the IVF frozen storage place lets thaw out and are discarded...then yes, they are now just as dead as an electively aborted embryo.
 
minnie616 said:
Once the owners no longer want to pay the fee to keep them frozen and then the IVF frozen storage place lets thaw out and are discarded...then yes, they are now just as dead as an electively aborted embryo.
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Ahhhh so the argument has changed then, it's not JUST about the fact of being frozen, it's about the entire process with which they become discarded. The argument is simply not how the OP poses it. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
minnie616 said:
No I'm not confusing adult stem cells from embryonic ones.




They needed embryonic stem cells. if they could Adult stem cells they would have used adult stem cells which are much easier to come by.

Did you even read the article?
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Wow...

This is a first if this is working with embryonic stem cells. Last I kept up, they had no progress with embryonic stem cells. Only adult stem cells.

Do you comprehend what they are saying?

"These cells come from the embryonic stem cells that are found in the brain and the spinal cord".
​

Just how far along is this fetus when they kill it for these cells?

I guess innocent life has no meaning to you.

these are not fresh embryos to develop brains... They are now living individual!

Murderer...
 
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SheWolf said:
I know a few people who have tried to adopt and it can be expensive and very hard. Depending on what kind of kid you want, I think it might be easier to get one though. Going through foster care is sometimes easier than getting on a waiting list, but that can be very emotional and a lot of kids you get attached to you may not be able adopt. Bad parents sometimes fight really hard to get their kids back from foster care, even if the kids don't want to go back to their bio parents. I have seen it happen. It's very sad.

Anyway, I can't help but be judgemental when I see hardcore pro-life women getting in vitro. They have to know that they are creating these snowflake babies. I really think that they are simply putting their desire to have a child well above their values. They think they are entitled to do it, because that's how bad they want children.
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Yes, if you want a white baby, it can be hard and a long wait. But generally speaking, there's lots of orphans. Sometimes the vanity of it all is rather stupid. If you want a kid, and cannot conceive, would it matter the race of the baby you adopted? For some yes, but I think it's rather silly. Human is human, and orphans need homes.

I'm not saying that we should have laws against artificial fertilization and such, but considering the case it can have interesting and perhaps dubious outcomes for a problem for which a solution already exists.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Wow...

This is a first if this is working with embryonic stem cells. Last I kept up, they had no progress with embryonic stem cells. Only adult stem cells.

Do you comprehend what they are saying?

"These cells come from the embryonic stem cells that are found in the brain and the spinal cord".
​

Just how far along is this fetus when they kill it for these cells?

I guess innocent life has no meaning to you.

these are not fresh embryos to develop brains... They are now living individual!

Murderer...
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Keep in mind that:

Name calling and insults speak not to the character of the target, but rather the attacker.

Actually the stem cells were not found in the brain or spinal cord of the embryo.
It must of have been a misprint in the article.

The following link is from a 1999 article when scientists were first working on this fantastic concept of helping those paralyzed from a spinal cord injury.

Christoper Reeves was always hopeful stem cell research could help him walk someday.
Sadly he passed away before this breakthrough.

From the following1999 article:

Transplanted embryonic stem cells survive, differentiate and promote recovery in injured rat spinal cord
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https://www.researchgate.net/profil...omote-recovery-in-injured-rat-spinal-cord.pdf
 
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Yes, stem cell research comes in a variety of ways. The most promising breakthroughs have been adult stem cells, not embryonic.

If we are going to take the slippery slope of embryonic stem cell research, shouldn't we understand it better first with adult stem cell research?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yes, stem cell research comes in a variety of ways. The most promising breakthroughs have been adult stem cells, not embryonic.

If we are going to take the slippery slope of embryonic stem cell research, shouldn't we understand it better first with adult stem cell research?
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As I said the embryonic stem cells used to help the paralyzed man in the article I posted were cells that were/are used for IVF treatment but they were leftover cells and would have been thrown out otherwise.

From this article:

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AST-OPC1 cells are made from embryonic stem cells by carefully converting them into oligodendrocyte progenitor cells (OPCs), which are cells found in the brain and spinal cord that support the healthy functioning of nerve cells.
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https://stemcell.usc.edu/2016/09/07...al-stem-cell-therapy-at-keck-hospital-of-usc/



They converted the cells..they converted into the same type of cells one would find in the brain or spinal cord....They did not take the cells from the brain or spinal cord
 
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minnie616 said:
They converted the cells..they converted into the same type of cells one would find in the brain or spinal cord....They did not take the cells from the brain or spinal cord
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Not may fault you relayed improper information.
 
Lord of Planar said:
For embryonic stem cell research, they continue the growing process, past the point needed for impregnation.
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Religious people are upset about abortion because they think God infuses a "soul" into an egg cell the second it is fertilized by a sperm. They define that as the beginning of life. But if you take that fertilized egg, change its DNA expression to have it become a skin cell, or a brain cell, or whatever else, instead of a real person, what happens to that "soul"? Why are you still not dealing with a person?

And of course, after the research is over, they throw those differentiated cells out. So why does it matter if you differentiate the cell first, then destroy the cell, rather than just destroying it from the beginning?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yes, stem cell research comes in a variety of ways. The most promising breakthroughs have been adult stem cells, not embryonic.

If we are going to take the slippery slope of embryonic stem cell research, shouldn't we understand it better first with adult stem cell research?
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So you are saying that a nerve cell differentiated from an adult stem cell is somehow different that one differentiated from an embryonic stem cell? The end result is exactly the same. Are you worried that there is some kind of otherworldly soul that would be stuck in that embryonic stem cell-turned nerve cell that would not exist in the adult stem cell-turned nerve cell?
 
ataraxia said:
Religious people are upset about abortion because they think God infuses a "soul" into an egg cell the second it is fertilized by a sperm. They define that as the beginning of life. But if you take that fertilized egg, change its DNA expression to have it become a skin cell, or a brain cell, or whatever else, instead of a real person, what happens to that "soul"? Why are you still not dealing with a person?

And of course, after the research is over, they throw those differentiated cells out. So why does it matter if you differentiate the cell first, then destroy the cell, rather than just destroying it from the beginning?
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Souls and gods have nothing to do with the abortion debate. Many may conflate them, but they are entirely separate. Skin cells, left to natural development, won't become undeniably a person.
 
Ikari said:
Souls and gods have nothing to do with the abortion debate.
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Well they do at least for many people. But even expressed in more secular or technical legal terms, the debate is when does, or when SHOULD, a fertilized egg get counted as a human being?

Many may conflate them, but they are entirely separate. Skin cells, left to natural development, won't become undeniably a person.
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So let me follow the logic: We have skin cells that won't become undeniably a person. But if we find out that those same skin cells were derived from an embryonic stem cell, then that's unethical? It's the exact same cells.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Yes, stem cell research comes in a variety of ways. The most promising breakthroughs have been adult stem cells, not embryonic.

If we are going to take the slippery slope of embryonic stem cell research, shouldn't we understand it better first with adult stem cell research?
Click to expand...

Actually the most promising breakthroughs for patients with spinal cord injury is embryonic stem cell research.

from the following article where 5 patients were treated and all 5 showed improvement

Human embryonic stem cells in the treatment of patients with spinal cord injury.

Conclusion
In conclusion, hESC is safe and effective therapy for SCI.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4627203/





Human embryonic stem cells in the treatment of patients with spinal cord injury
 
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