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california proposal to make abortion first degree murder

graeme104 said:
And your second point is moot because if abortions were criminalized, people would have the sense to not sleep around and create unwanted children that then have to go on child support. And if they don't then they pay for their decision. End of story.
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Which is why abortions are just as prevalent where illegal as they are where legal, eh?
 
calamity said:
Few people realize just how fast Cali turns into Arizonna, Nevada and Idaho once you drive a few miles away from the coast. Traveling from Bakersfield to San Luis Obispo is like stepping through a wormhole. Or try Stockton to Frisco if you really want to see two worlds in one day.
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Oh, yeah. I've been all over the state, I mean everywhere, and am frequently up and down the 395 through Lone Pine, Bishop, etc... Inyo and Kern are Trump country.

That, and we have the eternally butthurt reactionaries WAY up in the NE who want to break away in their own state of Jefferson, never realizing that those on the north coast want exactly nothing to do with them or their lunacy.
 
year2late said:
A fetus exists off the physiology of one specific woman and is attached within via placenta and umbilical cord. If something biologically goes very wrong with either, it can negatively affect the other. Seems like the fetus is part of the woman's body on some level.

The presence of the fetus can cause grave illness for the mother. It certainly did with me. Luckily we both made it out alive....although the fetus that you say was never part of my body left me with medical issues from that episode over 20 years ago.
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When someone gets hurt by another, that doesn't make them part of the same body. If I were to drive into you with my car, causing you medical problems, that wouldn't make me part of your body.
 
faithful_servant said:
This is just an idea in a guys head. Nothing more. It hasn't even gotten past the petition phase. Did you even read the article or did you just see a headline and post it???
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They have cleared the hurdle to begin collecting signatures.

Didn't you read the same?

Weird.
 
graeme104 said:
When someone gets hurt by another, that doesn't make them part of the same body. If I were to drive into you with my car, causing you medical problems, that wouldn't make me part of your body.
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Dude, the woman physiologically is connected to the fetus. What does that have to do with a car?

If you are going to make a comparison, at least make it remotely appropriate.
 
year2late said:
Dude, the woman physiologically is connected to the fetus. What does that have to do with a car?

If you are going to make a comparison, at least make it remotely appropriate.
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Can you be a little bit more respectful and stop calling people dude?
 
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Scrabaholic said:
The unborn are not persons. And they are INSIDE OF AND ATTACHED TO the bodies of women, putting those bodies at great discomfort and pain, potentially impacting their health and potentially causing their death. Abortion is a form of self defense.

Children aren't.

Why should a woman be punished for having sex?
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Unborn = humans = people.

It is not that hard of a concept to understand.

Also, an abortion is the murder of a fetus. Just as if you were going to shoot/hunt an animal, that is murder unless you plan on eating the animal for food.

So unless the mother/doctors are eating the aborted fetus, it is murder.
 
faithful_servant said:
It's not a legal proposal, it's something some guy put together, most likely to get attention for the issue.
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Well, the Secretary of State made an announcement...my guess he is a little more serious.,,

September 08, 2017 2:53 PM




California supporters of an incendiary statewide initiative aiming for the 2018 ballot to criminalize abortion as first-degree murder have been cleared to begin collecting signatures.

Secretary of State Alex Padilla, acting in his ministerial role as the state’s chief elections official, issued the announcement late Friday.

Read more here: California proposal would make abortion a murder charge | The Sacramento Bee
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Bucky said:
Can you be a little bit more respectful and stop calling people dude?
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Good Lord.

The person who has been shown to outright lie on multiple occasions thinks "dude" is disrespectful?

Seriously?

Are you going to threaten me again with the "button on the left" again?:shock:

Now ,back to the topic. Some dude in California thinks that making abortion "first degree murder" is a good idea. He is also attacking some forms of contraception and IVF.

He has gotten legal approval to start collecting signatures to put it on the 2018 ballot.

Interestingly enough, California allows for the death penalty.

I think what this guy is doing is counter productive to the cause of drastically decreation abortions.

I believe he may be applauded by many prolifers for his beliefs while quietly told to back off. I would be curious how such a fringe pro-lifer is handled within the pro-life community. Embraced or handled? Not sure.
 
faithful_servant said:
So it's been cleared to start the very first steps in the process of getting to be a proposal on a ballot.
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That is what I have been saying.

I am not sure what your point is.

Clearly it is in the beginning phase. Did I say differently?
 
year2late said:
Good Lord.

The person who has been shown to outright lie on multiple occasions thinks "dude" is disrespectful?

Seriously?

Are you going to threaten me again with the "button on the left" again?:shock:

Now ,back to the topic. Some dude in California thinks that making abortion "first degree murder" is a good idea. He is also attacking some forms of contraception and IVF.

He has gotten legal approval to start collecting signatures to put it on the 2018 ballot.

Interestingly enough, California allows for the death penalty.

I think what this guy is doing is counter productive to the cause of drastically decreation abortions.

I believe he may be applauded by many pro-lifers for his beliefs while quietly told to back off. I would be curious how such a fringe pro-lifer is handled within the pro-life community. Embraced or handled? Not sure.
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I just ask for some decorum. No need to get into a hissy fit. The abortion debate requires a respectful dialogue and calling people dude is highly disrespectful.
 
Bucky said:
I just ask for some decorum. No need to get into a hissy fit. The abortion debate requires a respectful dialogue and calling people dude is highly disrespectful.
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Do you think your history of repetitive lies is respectful....showing decorum?
 
Bucky said:
I just ask for some decorum. No need to get into a hissy fit. The abortion debate requires a respectful dialogue and calling people dude is highly disrespectful.
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2.

Slang. a.a fellow; chap.
b.(a general term of address used to a man, woman, or group).
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Sorry you find it disrespectful.

But really ....
 
year2late said:
Do you think your history of repetitive lies is respectful....showing decorum?
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The fact you are calling me a liar shows you don't get it.

Show some respect. By calling me a liar you are trolling and trying to get a reaction out of me. This is a typical strategy used by Trump calling his opponents liars and giving them cute nicknames like Lyin' Ted.
 
year2late said:
Dude, the woman physiologically is connected to the fetus. What does that have to do with a car?

If you are going to make a comparison, at least make it remotely appropriate.
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The person claimed that because the fetus can cause a woman medical harm, it is part of her body. That is simply untrue, and that is all I was saying. Do you think conjoined twins are the same person? Do you think one conjoined twin has the right to order the death of his/her twin simply because "it's my body"?
 
graeme104 said:
The person claimed that because the fetus can cause a woman medical harm, it is part of her body. That is simply untrue, and that is all I was saying. Do you think conjoined twins are the same person? Do you think one conjoined twin has the right to order the death of his/her twin simply because "it's my body"?
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No, I stated that it shares the physiology and because of this one can cause harm to the other.

My fetus caused great harm to me and my body fueled it's ability to do this.

We both lived. He is healthy....I have health issues (decades later) due to the pregnancy.

Shared physiology. Yes, a part. Perhaps not your definition of a part, but certainly physiologically connected to the point that one can cause harm to the other.
 
graeme104 said:
Having a child isn't a punishment, it is a blessing. If you don't want a baby, then don't have sex.
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Do you find telling women not to have sex is helpful in attempting to decrease the frequency of abortions? My guess is that would almost have the opposite effect.
 
Bucky said:
The fact you are calling me a liar shows you don't get it.

Show some respect. By calling me a liar you are trolling and trying to get a reaction out of me. This is a typical strategy used by Trump calling his opponents liars and giving them cute nicknames like Lyin' Ted.
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And you lie again. I did not call you a liar in that post. I said you have repeatedly lied in past posts. I think that is more than evident.


But, thanks for attempting to derail my thread with your silly "dude" comment.
 
year2late said:
Do you find telling women not to have sex is helpful in attempting to decrease the frequency of abortions? My guess is that would almost have the opposite effect.
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This is a classic deflection tactic used by the left.

If you want to preach equality, you also need to preach responsibility as well. Women can't just be slinging out their vagina on the streets.
 
year2late said:
Do you find telling women not to have sex is helpful in attempting to decrease the frequency of abortions? My guess is that would almost have the opposite effect.
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Nowhere in my argument did I "tell women not to have sex". All I said was women shouldn't have sex if they aren't prepared to face the consequences of that action. Everyone should be responsible for their actions.
 
graeme104 said:
Nowhere in my argument did I "tell women not to have sex". All I said was women shouldn't have sex if they aren't prepared to face the consequences of that action. Everyone should be responsible for their actions.
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year2late assumes humans are slaves to their hormones and shouldn't be responsible for giving into their primal urges.

Yet she is probably the first person that wants to castrate a man for cheating on his wife.
 
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