Re: Abortion: BOTH sides have good points. This is my attempt to interpret both sides
[part 2 of 2, in reply to Msg #586]
Why do you support forcing men to support/raise/care for children,
SEE ABOVE. (well, part 1 of this msg)
while on the other hand you do not support forcing women to support/raise/care for children?
BECAUSE NOW YOU ARE CONFUSING UNBORN HUMANS WITH CHILDREN. Actual children are born humans; the unborn are children-under-construction, as different from actual children as a house-under-construction is different from a house in which one could reside.
If they get born, then I most certainly do support requiring women to support/raise/care for children. Before birth, since unborn humans are not actually children, and are in fact equivalent to the property of pregnant women, it doesn't matter TO ME if a woman wants to carry a pregnancy to term or not.
Not because children have a right to life,
FALSE. See above.
but because you believe women should have rights that men do not
IT IS PERFECTLY OBVIOUS THAT A PREGNANT WOMAN HAS PROPERTY THAT A MAN DOES NOT. And since ownership of a property is associated with rights, I am not inventing anything unusual here. I'm simply describing an aspect of The Way Things Are.
(even after birth when there is no difference between man and woman, a common ground of violations of due process).
SEE ABOVE; I am in favor of both men and women being responsible parents.
[snip GUESS/argument that doesn't actually describe my position]
Do you really believe that this is a matter of "women's rights?"
CURRENTLY, YES. Do keep in mind that for thousands of years women were expected to be baby-factories, with little choice regarding abortion. Cultural leaders (regardless of whether they were political or religious) wanted fighters to be able to claim more territory and thus support more people to raise more fighters to claim more territory and thus support more people to raise more fighters...
for thousands of years! Nowadays, though, borders between different populations have mostly stabilized (certain of our weapons have become too powerful for casual use!), and so women don't generally need to be baby factories any more. Which leads to a right to abort unwanted pregnancies.
I do not believe in any "right to receive support."
OF COURSE NOT. You think men should be able to selfishly pass on their genes and expect others to pay for it. Tsk, tsk!
It is necessary for human beings to support one another,
A STABLE LONG-LASTING CULTURE DEPENDS ON IT.
but not in the sense that there is a legal obligation to be preyed upon by women who wish to capitalize on supportive men.
MEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO PICK DIFFERENT WOMEN. And the choice to use contraception. Stupidity Always Has A Price --and men
KNOW that price in advance, for the particular Stupidity under discussion here!!!
Parasitism is not necessary, and it is not a good point on either side of the abortion debate.
PENALIZING STUPIDITY IS COMMON ALL THROUGH THE CULTURE, and has nothing to do with "parasitism".
