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Oregon is giving free "abortions" for all

Bucky said:
What I don't understand is that you keep saying, "I don't support abortion but I do not want to interfere with another's right."

Abortion requires massive regulations and it should be extremely difficult to get one. Imagine if this country just allowed anyone "the right" to get their hands on an AK47, machine gun, or silencer?

Should kids be able to get their hands on bazookas just because they have a "right" to own a handgun? That's nonsensical and abortions just shouldn't be given to anyone.
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Oh come on, you can't go kill a bunch of people with an abortion. Depending on one's stance, you can only kill one person at best, or possibly a set of twins or something. And besides, a silencer doesn't muffle a gunshot nearly as much as Hollywood seems to think, and are perfectly legal to buy in many states.

Even with the arguable-murder, those arguably-people are legal to kill, by Roe V. Wade, so... yeah. Guns & gun accessories =/= abortions.
 
Oborosen said:
Well seeing as late term has been so colorfully called "Euthanizing Children" by some of the clinics down in Mexico. I tend to find the idea of a woman so late in her term that the baby could actually survive outside, getting an abortion a rather abominable thing.
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How many abortions past 24 weeks ( viability ) do you think occurs yearly in the US?

Fact:

About 100 abortions a year occur in the US ( all 50 states total ) they are the extreme cases where irreparable damage to major bodilily function of the woman ( such as stroke, heart attack , paralysis from the neck down, kidney or liver damage would have occurred if the pregnancy continued ) or the fetus was so malformed if born would have only lived a few minutes or hours.

From a 2003 Fox News article
June 17, 2003
...
Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation),
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The stats have changed since then.

By 2012 the numbers of abortion were less than 1.2 million.
In 2014 the CDC reported less than I million.

Fewer than I.3 percent of legal abortions took place between 21 weeks gestation and 24 weeks gestation.
Some for maternal health , more for fetal health since fetal abnormalies usually do not show up until the 18-20 gestational week ultrasound. That only gives the parents with input from the doctor and tests to decide if they want to terminate the pregnancy since viabily usually occurs between 22 and 24 weeks.

And as I said about 100 occur past 24 weeks, which is the age of viability.
 
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AlbqOwl said:
Of course they are. The receiving agency can say the federal funds they receive are for other things and show it that way on their books, but it is absurd to say that the low prices Planned Parenthood charges for abortions are not as a result of them being heavily subsidized for other, usually very marginal and inconsequential and inexpensive, services they say that they provide.
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$350 for a non profit abortion is not absurdly low when compared to a $500 charge at a for profit doctor's office.

Planned Parenthood charges for all their abortions.
The woman or her insurance pays for her abortion.
Sometimes the woman can get some money from an abortion fund ( people donate money to abortion funds to help fund abortions.Over 200,000 woman a year get help paying for their abortions from abortion funds?



The Guttmacher Institute found that in 2009 (the most recent year Data is available ), the average cost for a surgical abortion at 10 weeks was $470, of which women paid $451. The average cost of the abortion pill was $490, of which women paid $483.

Hospitals and physicians’ offices cost more than clinics. Across the board, prices increase as pregnancy progresses.

The National Abortion Federation found that the average price for an abortion (medical or surgical) performed between six and 10 weeks is $350 at an abortion clinic and $500 at a doctor’s office.
 
Bucky said:
What I don't understand is that you keep saying, "I don't support abortion but I do not want to interfere with another's right."Abortion requires massive regulations and it should be extremely difficult to get one. Imagine if this country just allowed anyone "the right" to get their hands on an AK47, machine gun, or silencer?

Should kids be able to get their hands on bazookas just because they have a "right" to own a handgun? That's nonsensical and abortions just shouldn't be given to anyone.
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Please do not lie and use quotes around a phrase did not say. On top of that you double down and indicate I keep saying that phrase,

I never said I do not support abortion. I support choice. For me, that choice means "no",

I personally do not believe in abortion. Would not have one myself.
 
Oborosen said:
If you think that about late term abortions, then you obviously haven't seen some of the facilities that specialize for it in Mexico.
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Are those clinics in Mexico that you speak illegal?

I posted about the 3 legal abortion clinics in the USA that perform about 100 3rd trimester abortions a year ( past 24 weeks ).
 
year2late said:
That is what "they say" they offer???

Are you kidding me?

Do you think they are lying about birth control? STD diagnosis and treatment? PAP smears and treatment of precancers? HIV testing and counselling?(etc,etc)

It is hard to take you seriously at this point if you are doubting that they even deliver those services.

(e
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About 5% of women do get pap smears at Planned Parenthood--they do a bit more of those than they do abortions--however women who qualify can get free or low-cost cancer screening at various state health departments across the country through the National Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection. Planned Parenthood charges $50 and up. Same for HIV tests, precancer prevention, etc. etc. etc. Planned Parenthood charges several hundred dollars for an abortion and cannot treat women who develop complications from the procedure and have to ship them to the nearest hospital. The woman would be much better off going to to the hospital in the first place.

Nobody says Planned Parenthood doesn't provide some service. It does. But all the other services combined pale in comparison to the abortions that are Planned Parenthood's bread and butter.

So again, Planned Parenthood should sink or swim on its own merits just as other not-for-profit agencies do. If it is a necessary organization, donors will provide whatever it needs--including Cecile Richards' half a million plus salary-- above and beyond the fees it collects. It should not be on the back of the taxpayer.
 
minnie616 said:
$350 for a non profit abortion is not absurdly low when compared to a $500 charge at a for profit doctor's office.

Planned Parenthood charges for all their abortions.
The woman or her insurance pays for her abortion.
Sometimes the woman can get some money from an abortion fund ( people donate money to abortion funds to help fund abortions.Over 200,000 woman a year get help paying for their abortions from abortion funds?



The Guttmacher Institute found that in 2009 (the most recent year Data is available ), the average cost for a surgical abortion at 10 weeks was $470, of which women paid $451. The average cost of the abortion pill was $490, of which women paid $483.

Hospitals and physicians’ offices cost more than clinics. Across the board, prices increase as pregnancy progresses.

The National Abortion Federation found that the average price for an abortion (medical or surgical) performed between six and 10 weeks is $350 at an abortion clinic and $500 at a doctor’s office.
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The prices are comparable:
Cost of an Abortion - Consumer Information - CostHelper
 
AlbqOwl said:
I was not discussing the pros and cons of abortion. I was discussing federal funding of Planned Parenthood and how a law like Oregon just passed makes Planned Parenthood unnecessary and therefore doesn't warrant federal funding.

Could we focus on that please?
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AGENT J said:
sure, share why your claim is FACTUALLY true?
Why would this law make medical facilities unnecessary and or negate their need for federal funding?
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AlbqOwl said:
Reading dysfunction much? I didn't say anything about making medical facilities unnecessary nor did I discuss federal funding regarding those.
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AGENT J said:
LMAO poating lies much, actually you FACTUALY did, planned parenthood is a medical facility LMAO
so ill ask you AGAIN

share why your claim is FACTUALLY true?
Why would this law make medical facilities (PLANNED PARENT HOOD for clarity if one is choosing to be dishonest) unnecessary and or negate their need for federal funding?

(predicition some fake high road and deflection will be posted and ZERO facts will be provided makes the questioned statements factually true or just plain running away)
:popcorn2:
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LMAO Crickets . . .
I guess i was right with my guess of running away.
Please let us know when you can provide reasons why this law would make medical facilities (PLANNED PARENT HOOD for clarity if one is choosing to be dishonest) factaully unnecessary and or factually negate their need for federal funding?
 
AlbqOwl said:
The prices are comparable:
Cost of an Abortion - Consumer Information - CostHelper
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So why did you imply that the only way Planned Parenthoods abortions were less money because
" the low prices Planned Parenthood charges for abortions are not as a result of them being being heavilily subsidezed ...." ?

AlbqOwl said:
Of course they are. The receiving agency can say the federal funds they receive are for other things and show it that way on their books, but it is absurd to say that the low prices Planned Parenthood charges for abortions are not as a result of them being heavily subsidized for other, usually very marginal and inconsequential and inexpensive, services they say that they provide.
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AGENT J said:
LMAO Crickets . . .
I guess i was right with my guess of running away.
Please let us know when you can provide reasons why this law would make medical facilities (PLANNED PARENT HOOD for clarity if one is choosing to be dishonest) factaully unnecessary and or factually negate their need for federal funding?
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If other agencies are providing abortions and/or other procedures for free or at low cost, there is no need for federal funding for Planned Parenthood. Those who like that organization can fund it with their contributions to supplement what Planned Parenthood charges for the procedures.
 
minnie616 said:
So why did you imply that the only way Planned Parenthoods abortions were less money because
" the low prices Planned Parenthood charges for abortions are not as a result of them being being heavilily subsidezed ...." ?
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Because it doesn't matter what part of the pool you pour the water into, it still subsidizes the whole pool. If they don't have to spend as much on other stuff that the federal money is supposed to pay for, they don't have to charge as much for abortions. It's as simple as that. No matter what you show on the books, federal money still subsidizes the whole organization.

It was no different under President Bush 43's program to help charities with services they provide because it was more cost effective to help agencies who already had the infrastructure and staff in place to deliver services rather that start from scratch for the government to do it all.

The objections to that were because organizations like the Salvation Army also provides religious counseling and worship services along with their humanitarian relief and the naysayers didn't want to fund that even though the money was technically targeted for other things. The naysayers objected to any religious organization receiving any government funding.
 
AlbqOwl said:
1.) If other agencies are providing abortions and/or other procedures for free or at low cost, there is no need for federal funding for Planned Parenthood.
2.) Those who like that organization can fund it with their contributions to supplement what Planned Parenthood charges for the procedures.
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1.) opinion
2.) more opinion

so just like i said you have nothing more than your FEELINGS to support what you said and its not a fact in anyway shape or form and just biased hypocrisy against PP. Thanks for proving it.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) opinion
2.) more opinion

so just like i said you have nothing more than your FEELINGS to support what you said and its not a fact in anyway shape or form and just biased hypocrisy against PP. Thanks for proving it.
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Then the OP is opinion? Your quarrel is with it then and not me.
 
AlbqOwl said:
1.)Then the OP is opinion?
2.) Your quarrel is with it then and not me.
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1.) i didnt mention the OP to you, but part of the OP are actually laws
2.) i have no quarrel with you, i was just pointing out the fact that what you posted earlier was factually not true, hypocritical and biased, you further proved that with your replies and a complete inability to back up your claims. Thanks!
nice try at a deflection but it completely failed
 
AGENT J said:
1.) i didnt mention the OP to you, but part of the OP are actually laws
2.) i have no quarrel with you, i was just pointing out the fact that what you posted earlier was factually not true, hypocritical and biased, you further proved that with your replies and a complete inability to back up your claims. Thanks!
nice try at a deflection but it completely failed
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It is factually true so far as Oregon goes which is what I have been arguing since the Oregon law is the point of this thread.

If Oregon is providing free abortion on demand to everybody, there is no reason to federally fund Planned Parenthood as their primary purpose is as a low cost abortion clinic plus all their other services for low income people can and are provided by other services.

If Planned Parenthood is such a wonderful organization, it will sink or swim on its own merit with fees and contributions like all other not for profit service organizations do, and there is no need for federal funding.

And that is factually correct.
 
AlbqOwl said:
1.)It is factually true so far as Oregon goes which is what I have been arguing since the Oregon law is the point of this thread.
2.)If Oregon is providing free abortion on demand to everybody, there is no reason to federally fund Planned Parenthood as their primary purpose is as a low cost abortion clinic plus all their other services for low income people can and are provided by other services.
3.) If Planned Parenthood is such a wonderful organization, it will sink or swim on its own merit with fees and contributions like all other not for profit service organizations do, and there is no need for federal funding.
4.) And that is factually correct.
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1.) nope, just your laughable hypocritical and biased opinion, hence your inalienably to make it anything more than such, a fact you KEEP proving.
2.) thats your opinion that you havent been able to support with ONE fact that makes it true . . this isnt rocket science. We get it you hate PP and thats how you FEEL but its nothign else
3.) more opinion
4.) only if a person believes retarded lies LMAO
nothing you said is factually correct, its all your opinion, further proven by your inability to support it and make it true AGAIN. Why cant you prove it? VERY simple request.

Hint: dont post opinions and retarded lies then push them as fact or correct when they are just feelings. Your posts wont fail as hard and get destroyed so easily in the future.
Now here are you options, please pick one of them:

A.) using facts prove your claims to be true
B.) keep repeating the retarded lies and claims you are making which will continue in your posts failing
C.) post some deflection (still a fail)
D.) show integrity, honesty and objectivity and admit your claims are factually not true and just you feelings and opinions
E.) ran away (still a fail)

Thanks!
 
AlbqOwl said:
If other agencies are providing abortions and/or other procedures for free or at low cost, there is no need for federal funding for Planned Parenthood. Those who like that organization can fund it with their contributions to supplement what Planned Parenthood charges for the procedures.
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Where do you think the Oregon women who do not have a private GYN/OB who will perform abortions will go for their paid for abortions?

Oh yeah, most will be going to abortion clinics , many of them Planned Parenthoods since their insurance will cover it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It is factually true so far as Oregon goes which is what I have been arguing since the Oregon law is the point of this thread.

If Oregon is providing free abortion on demand to everybody, there is no reason to federally fund Planned Parenthood as their primary purpose is as a low cost abortion clinic plus all their other services for low income people can and are provided by other services.

If Planned Parenthood is such a wonderful organization, it will sink or swim on its own merit with fees and contributions like all other not for profit service organizations do, and there is no need for federal funding.

And that is factually correct.
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2.4 million men, woman , young people go to PP for services every year.
About 17 percent of those 2.4 million have abortions.

which means about 83 percent of the patients have non abortion related services.

Planned Parenhood abortions are not Federally funded
They are paid for by the woman or by her insurance.

Oregon now requires the woman's insurance to cover abortions.

From today's ABC article:

The law allocates $10.2 million from Oregon's general fund to expand the reproductive health care coverage to thousands of Oregonians statewide. About $6.2 million of that will go toward expanding reproductive health services to immigrants who are otherwise ineligible under the state's Medicaid program, including about $500,000 for abortion services.

...

Under the bill, insurers would be prohibited from shifting costs from those mandates to enrollees' deductibles, coinsurance or copayments, although the measure offers some religious-based exemptions.
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Correction: Abortion-Oregon story - ABC News
 
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AGENT J said:
1.) nope, just your laughable hypocritical and biased opinion, hence your inalienably to make it anything more than such, a fact you KEEP proving.
2.) thats your opinion that you havent been able to support with ONE fact that makes it true . . this isnt rocket science. We get it you hate PP and thats how you FEEL but its nothign else
3.) more opinion
4.) only if a person believes retarded lies LMAO
nothing you said is factually correct, its all your opinion, further proven by your inability to support it and make it true AGAIN. Why cant you prove it? VERY simple request.

Hint: dont post opinions and retarded lies then push them as fact or correct when they are just feelings. Your posts wont fail as hard and get destroyed so easily in the future.
Now here are you options, please pick one of them:

A.) using facts prove your claims to be true
B.) keep repeating the retarded lies and claims you are making which will continue in your posts failing
C.) post some deflection (still a fail)
D.) show integrity, honesty and objectivity and admit your claims are factually not true and just you feelings and opinions
E.) ran away (still a fail)

Thanks!
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You are repeating yourself and are still wrong. Have a nice day.
 
minnie616 said:
Where do you think the Oregon women who do not have a private GYN/OB who will perform abortions will go for their paid for abortions?

Oh yeah, most will be going to abortion clinics , many of them Planned Parenthoods since their insurance will cover it.
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I suppose at the facilities the OP mentioned. Apparently you don't have to have insurance at all to get a free abortion at those clinics.
 
minnie616 said:
2.4 million men, woman , young people go to PP for services every year.
About 17 percent of those 2.4 million have abortions.

which means about 83 percent of the patients have non abortion related services.

Planned Parenhood abortions are not Federally funded
They are paid for by the woman or by her insurance.

Oregon now requires the woman's insurance to cover abortions.

From today's ABC article:



Correction: Abortion-Oregon story - ABC News
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My comments are directed at the OP and therefore Oregon. I am not arguing what happens anywhere else. That should be done on another thread.
 
AlbqOwl said:
1.) You are repeating yourself and are still wrong. Have a nice day.
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1.) Translation, you still cant provide one single fact to support the retarded claims you made that are factually not accurate LOL
2.) I accept your concession. You do the same and thanks I will you helped made it happen, its always a nice day when i expose lies like the ones in your posts :)
 
AlbqOwl said:
I suppose at the facilities the OP mentioned. Apparently you don't have to have insurance at all to get a free abortion at those clinics.
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No clinics nor facilities are mentioned in the OP article.
 
minnie616 said:
No clinics nor facilities are mentioned in the OP article.
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Nor is Planned Parenthood. But I have been discussing the Oregon law that is mentioned in the OP article and noted that since abortions are free everywhere in Oregon now as are all the other services Planned Parenthood says they provide, at least for low income people, then federal funding of Planned Parenthood in Oregon can no longer be justified.
 
AlbqOwl said:
....But I have been discussing the Oregon law that is mentioned in the OP article ...
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From a list of the abortion clinics in Oregon:

Zero of the Planned Parenthoods provide surgical past 14 weeks.

One PP abortions up to 9 weeks.

One up to 12 weeks


Two provide abortions up to 14 weeks.


ALl together 5 Clinics that only provide medical abortions ( abortion pills ) up to 9 weeks pregnancy.

There are two non Planned Parenthoods that abortion clinics that provide abortions past 14 weeks.

One non Planned Parenthood up to 20.5 weeks

And another clinic ( not affiliated with Planned Parenhood ) up to 24 weeks.

Abortion Clinics | NROptions
 
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