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Hyde Amendment

year2late

year2late

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Over the years, multiple accusations are levied against Planned Parenthood accusing them of illegally using federal funds for abortions (outside of allowances for rape/health of mother issues)

TITLE I--PROHIBITING FEDERALLY FUNDED ABORTIONS

(Sec. 101) This bill makes permanent the prohibition on the use of federal funds, including funds in the budget of the District of Columbia, for abortion or health coverage that includes abortion. The prohibitions in this bill, and current prohibitions, do not apply to abortions in cases of rape or incest, or where a physical condition endangers a woman's life unless an abortion is performed.

Abortions may not be provided in a federal health care facility or by a federal employee.

TITLE II--APPLICATION UNDER THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT

(Sec. 201) This bill amends the Internal Revenue Code and the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to prohibit qualified health plans from including coverage for abortions. (Qualified health plans are sold on health insurance exchanges, are the only plans eligible for premium subsidies and small employer health insurance tax credits, and fulfill an individual's requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage.) Currently, qualified health plans may cover abortion, but the portion of the premium attributable to abortion coverage is not eligible for subsidies.
(Sec. 202) The bill revises notification requirements for qualified health plans regarding abortion coverage and charges for abortion coverage.
— https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/7
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I do not understand the accusations.

Planned Parenthood all but gives away some services through drastically reduced sliding scale fees or poor Medicaid reimbursement...but abortions they usually get full price payment up front.(unless there is some insurance coverage). The one thing they don't need financial help with is abortion. Almost everything else? Sure .
 
Look, we all know Planned Parenthood is just a front put up by the Obama-run Muslim Brotherhood. It's a fact that they use all that federal money illegally, so that they can dissect fetus parts, and deliver them to Satan and the rest of the Bohemian Illuminati.

This is very much undeniable at this point.
 
TheGoverness said:
Look, we all know Planned Parenthood is just a front put up by the Obama-run Muslim Brotherhood. It's a fact that they use all that federal money illegally, so that they can dissect fetus parts, and deliver them to Satan and the rest of the Bohemian Illuminati.

This is very much undeniable at this point.
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Duh! This is as pointless as saying 2+2=fish. Everyone already knows it.
 
Ikari said:
Duh! This is as pointless as saying 2+2=fish. Everyone already knows it.
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Actually, you've been lied to by the government. 2 + 2 does not equal fish, 2 + 2 equals gorilla.
 
TheGoverness said:
Actually, you've been lied to by the government. 2 + 2 does not equal fish, 2 + 2 equals gorilla.
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That's blasphemy, and I've had about enough of it from you! Everyone knows gorilla is the cuberoot of banana!
 
year2late said:
Over the years, multiple accusations are levied against Planned Parenthood accusing them of illegally using federal funds for abortions (outside of allowances for rape/health of mother issues)



I do not understand the accusations.

Planned Parenthood all but gives away some services through drastically reduced sliding scale fees or poor Medicaid reimbursement...but abortions they usually get full price payment up front.(unless there is some insurance coverage). The one thing they don't need financial help with is abortion. Almost everything else? Sure .
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I normally steer clear of this sub-forum, but, I'll give this thread topic a try...

Do you have data to support that PP usually gets full price payment up front for abortion? I've heard that before, not often, but I have heard it before. Is there any substantiation of that from a reliable source?

As for the other services that tax payer funds supposedly pay for, money is fungible. There's no realistic way to say that once money is put into the main account, that it doesn't come back out to cover the costs for something it's not supposed to be used for. Hence the problem with the Hyde Amendment.

On a side note, I'm not anti-abortion nor do I feel that tax payers should be able to pick and choose which federal costs their tax money should be used for and what their tax money should not be used for. However, the Hyde Amendment isn't like a bunch of peaceniks not wanting their tax dollars used for the military, or a bunch of nationalist isolationists not wanting their tax dollars used for foreign aid. The Hyde Amendment prevents ALL tax payer dollars from being used for something that was upheld as legal by the Supreme Court on the grounds of Privacy. It's my personal opinion that tax money shouldn't be used for those types of personal choices that the government has been restricted in regulating. In fact, I don't think that federal tax dollars should be used for any medical procedure other than those that are true entitlements -- such as veteran benefits, federal employee benefits, and Medicare -- and not any other welfare program. One of the great things about our country and our Constitution, the states are not restricted from paying for whatever the tax citizens of those states decide to use their tax money to pay for. If a state wants to pay for abortions, I have no problem with that at all. If a state wants to pay for full medical care for it's citizens -- single-payer -- I have no problem with that either.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Do you have data to support that PP usually gets full price payment up front for abortion? I've heard that before, not often, but I have heard it before. Is there any substantiation of that from a reliable source?

As for the other services that tax payer funds supposedly pay for, money is fungible. There's no realistic way to say that once money is put into the main account, that it doesn't come back out to cover the costs for something it's not supposed to be used for. Hence the problem with the Hyde Amendment.

On a side note, I'm not anti-abortion nor do I feel that tax payers should be able to pick and choose which federal costs their tax money should be used for and what their tax money should not be used for. However, the Hyde Amendment isn't like a bunch of peaceniks not wanting their tax dollars used for the military, or a bunch of nationalist isolationists not wanting their tax dollars used for foreign aid. The Hyde Amendment prevents ALL tax payer dollars from being used for something that was upheld as legal by the Supreme Court on the grounds of Privacy. It's my personal opinion that tax money shouldn't be used for those types of personal choices that the government has been restricted in regulating. In fact, I don't think that federal tax dollars should be used for any medical procedure other than those that are true entitlements -- such as veteran benefits, federal employee benefits, and Medicare -- and not any other welfare program. One of the great things about our country and our Constitution, the states are not restricted from paying for whatever the tax citizens of those states decide to use their tax money to pay for. If a state wants to pay for abortions, I have no problem with that at all. If a state wants to pay for full medical care for it's citizens -- single-payer -- I have no problem with that either.
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Go on individual PP sites. You will find sliding scales...try finding the scales applying to abortions. What you will find is some acess to donated funds and some STATES agree to pay...but not the feds.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I normally steer clear of this sub-forum, but, I'll give this thread topic a try...

Do you have data to support that PP usually gets full price payment up front for abortion? I've heard that before, not often, but I have heard it before. Is there any substantiation of that from a reliable source?

....
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Abortion clinics charge the patients for abortions.
Over 200,000 women request help paying for their abortions every year.

Private donations help women pay for their abortions.
From the fund abortion now .org site:


Where do abortion funds get their money?

Nearly all abortion funds get their money from private donors who care about abortion access.
The people who donate to abortion funds believe that every woman has a right to make the decision that’s best for her life and her situation, regardless of how much money she has in the bank.

Can abortion funds pay the whole cost of my abortion?

Sadly, abortion funds cannot afford to cover the whole cost of your abortion. There are 200,000 women every single year who need help paying for an abortion, and right now there’s just not enough money to go around.

Abortion funds will give you as much as they can.
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In the following <SNIP> a women with 5 children resells of of struggles to try to raise money for an abortion when her husband was laid off his job during the last recession and she found out she was expecting again. Because they loved their children very much they decided she needed an abortion.She sold her wedding ring and other items but still did not have enough to pay the abortion so she aked for help funding the abortion:

Here is a <SNIP> from her story.
Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off.

I love my big family...and I love my children too much to have another baby right now.

My husband and I have five children. We love kids and we love having a big family. But when my husband got laid off from his contractor job, having a big family got really hard.

When I found out I was pregnant again, it was terrifying. We love the idea of another child -- but we love the children we have too much to add that kind of stress to our family right now.

I'm only working part-time and I couldn't get maternity leave, so I might not be able to keep my job with another little one. I hated that we had to make this decision, but it turned out that making the decision was the easiest part. Because then we had to find the money to pay for an abortion.

We started taking stuff to the pawn shop: our vacuum cleaner, my wedding ring, our family television, the old desktop computer. When that wasn't enough, we took my husband's tools and his drills.

That was the hardest trip. My husband's been trying to pick up construction work. Without his tools or his drills, there's hardly anyone who'll hire him.

And after all that, we were short on what we needed. But the woman at the clinic gave us the name of an abortion fund.

An abortion fund. Who knew, right?

They gave us what we needed.

And when I broke down on the phone and admitted that we didn't even have gas money to get to the clinic, they helped us with that, too.

So now I pay the pawn shop every month to keep our things -- my wedding ring and my husband's tools are the only ones we can afford to pay on. And if you miss a month, the payment is doubled from then on. So we're stuck in this cycle. We'll be paying for this abortion for a long time.

But the panic is gone. The rest of it, well...we'll figure it out. We'll do whatever we have to do to take care of our family.
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Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off. | Fund Abortion Now.org
 
year2late said:
Go on individual PP sites. You will find sliding scales...try finding the scales applying to abortions. What you will find is some acess to donated funds and some STATES agree to pay...but not the feds.
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Actually a moot point. As the poster pointed out, money is fungible. Federal funds used in one area frees up funds for use in others, including abortions. Period, end of story. You can pretend you don't understand this, but it's not believable. :shrug:
 
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countryboy said:
Actually a moot point. As the poster pointed out, money is fungible. Federal funds used in one area frees up funds for use in others, including abortions. Period, end of story. You can pretend you don't understand this, but it's not believable. :shrug:
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But the Federal Funds do not even cover the Title X programs.
More money has to raised to cover those services.
There is no money left over to be used for abortions.



From the Washington post:

[MYTH]

1. Planned Parenthood’s federal funding frees up other money to pay for abortions.

Opponents of Planned Parenthood insist that giving the organization federal dollars allows it to spend other money in its budget to provide abortions.
That is not possible — there is no other money.

Title X is a federal grant program that exists solely to help low-income and uninsured people access contraceptives and sexual health care; 5.2 million people use the program annually. But Congress has never appropriated enough money to take care of the estimated 17 million Americans who need publicly funded family-planning care. There always are more patients than subsidies.


Further, a Title X grant is designed to help with costs, not to fully cover them.
So family-planning programs are required to find other money to support the Title X project — not the other way around. For patients who qualify for Medicaid, reimbursement rates for reproductive health services are lower than the cost of the care. A typical family-planning visit might cost upward of $200, including the exam, lab tests and contraceptive method, but the Medicaid reimbursement rate may be as low as $20.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...14/AFogj1iD_story.html?utm_term=.e51643e60765
 
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countryboy said:
Actually a moot point. As the poster pointed out, money is fungible. Federal funds used in one area frees up funds for use in others, including abortions. Period, end of story. You can pretend you don't understand this, but it's not believable. :shrug:
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What dont you understand about the fungible issue is moot. Abortions are already paid for in full at PP. Usually by the women . They do not need money to go to services that as re already paid for.
 
year2late said:
And abortions are already paid for. Either by the woman...donations...or perhaps the state she is in.
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Exactly. The abortions are paid for.
The woman or her insurance has to pay for them.

That's why so many ( over 200,000) low income women a year seek help from an abortion fund to help pay for their abortions.
 
minnie616 said:
Exactly. The abortions are paid for.
The woman or her insurance has to pay for them.

That's why so many ( over 200,000) low income women a year seek help from an abortion fund to help pay for their abortions.
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That is why the fungibility thing is a nonstarter.
 
year2late said:
What dont you understand about the fungible issue is moot. Abortions are already paid for in full at PP. Usually by the women . They do not need money to go to services that as re already paid for.
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You said yourself, they are billed on a sliding scale.
 
countryboy said:
You said yourself, they are billed on a sliding scale.
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I said other services are sliding scale. Not abortion. Show me where I said abortion was on a sliding scale.

Now, a woman may be able to get funding through private donations, but still, Planned Parenthood gets fully paid. No need for extra funding by the feds.
 
countryboy said:
You said yourself, they are billed on a sliding scale.
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There is no sliding scale, but the costs vary depending on far along in the pregnancy she is.
Planned Parenthood gives about 2 to 5 percent discount to the woman.



The Guttmacher Institute found that in 2009 (the most recent year Data is available ), the average cost for a surgical abortion at 10 weeks was $470, of which women paid $451. The average cost of the abortion pill was $490, of which women paid $483.

Hospitals and physicians’ offices cost more than clinics. Across the board, prices increase as pregnancy progresses.

The National Abortion Federation found that the average price for an abortion (medical or surgical) performed between six and 10 weeks is $350 at an abortion clinic and $500 at a doctor’s office.
 
countryboy said:
You said yourself, they are billed on a sliding scale.
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What I said was "try finding abortion on a sliding scale" at Planned Parenthood.

At best you will find some portion the woman will not have to pay because she has donated private funds available. Planned Parenthood in that case will still get fully paid without the federal government.

Like I said, this fungibility issue is a non starter because they do not need additional funds for services that are already fully funded.
 
year2late said:
What I said was "try finding abortion on a sliding scale" at Planned Parenthood.

At best you will find some portion the woman will not have to pay because she has donated private funds available. Planned Parenthood in that case will still get fully paid without the federal government.

Like I said, this fungibility issue is a non starter because they do not need additional funds for services that are already fully funded.
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Okay, my mistake. Misread your post.

The starting rate for an abortion at PP is $415. Are you telling me this covers all of their costs to perform this "procedure"?
 
countryboy said:
Okay, my mistake. Misread your post.

The starting rate for an abortion at PP is $415. Are you telling me this covers all of their costs to perform this "procedure"?
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For a few pills and medical care, yes.

For local anesthetic and a suction and a few minutes of a doctors and nurse's time? Yes,

Is it enough for them to make a big profit? No.
 
countryboy said:
Nope, the price I quoted was for clinical abortion. Nice try.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-western-pennsylvania/patients/fees-services
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I already said yes to both.

An abortion is a local anesthetic and a suction and a few minutes of a doctors time.

Yes, $400 will easily cover the cost. But that flies in the face of the "abortions for profit" crap your side likes to spew.

Which is it? Abortion are making PP hand over fist in money? Or they are so costly to perform they cannot do without federal money to subsidize them,

You guy seriously need to make up your minds.
 
countryboy said:
Okay, my mistake. Misread your post.

The starting rate for an abortion at PP is $415. Are you telling me this covers all of their costs to perform this "procedure"?
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According to 2009 figures:

The National Abortion Federation found that the average price for an abortion (medical or surgical) performed between six and 10 weeks is $350 at an abortion clinic and $500 at a doctor’s office.
 
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