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Should men be involved?

Bodhisattva said:
You missed the anti-logic logic that you applied... apparently.

I can talk and be a part of the discussion and decision as much as I want and ain't **** you can do about it bro! :lol:
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I wouldn't waste my time trying to debate with Praxas, he's just a bully and a troublemaker who hides behind a computer screen.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I wouldn't waste my time trying to debate with Praxas, he's just a bully and a troublemaker who hides behind a computer screen.
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Oh... thank you. IT is difficult for most to remain civil in a discussion such as this.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Sure they can, but there's people who say a man's opinion shouldn't count.
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Well, yes, I kind of addressed that in the stuff you deleted from the quote... :) I can have an opinion regarding the shocking reemergence of Civil War beards on hipsters, but that doesn't mean I can make them shave them off...hehe Yes, yes, I know, beards do not equate to abortions, but again, I gave it a more serious answer in the stuff you deleted.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Oh... thank you. IT is difficult for most to remain civil in a discussion such as this.
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Well I've remained neutral. I haven't said anything about myself, whether Im pro choice or pro life and whether or not I think men should be involved and I still got chewed out.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Well I've remained neutral. I haven't said anything about myself, whether Im pro choice or pro life and whether or not I think men should be involved and I still got chewed out.
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There is a Goose Step that goes on in this debate... a person either agrees with one sides party line or the other.

Any person in between or unclear gets trashed for not adhering to the party line of whom you are responding to...
 
DebateChallenge said:
I see. So you are obviously pro choice. Some people would say that as a man you should not be involved at all and it doesn't matter if you're pro choice or pro life.
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IMO, "pro life" = slavery.
 
So most people here said men should be involved in the abortion debate, or at least have a right to their opinion. Well I could say women shouldn't be involved in certain debates or shouldn't have opinions about certain debates or if they do their opinions shouldn't count, such as the gun debate.
 
DebateChallenge said:
So most people here said men should be involved in the abortion debate, or at least have a right to their opinion. Well I could say women shouldn't be involved in certain debates or shouldn't have opinions about certain debates or if they do their opinions shouldn't count, such as the gun debate.
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Based on?
 
DebateChallenge said:
So most people here said men should be involved in the abortion debate, or at least have a right to their opinion. Well I could say women shouldn't be involved in certain debates or shouldn't have opinions about certain debates or if they do their opinions shouldn't count, such as the gun debate.
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Whoever said women shouldn't be involved in gun debates? Not I.

Putting aside for the moment that guns come in colors to match purses and that women buy them, a women's opinion is just as valuable as mine.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I recently started another thread where I brought up the issue if men should be involved in the abortion debate but the thread has gone off on other tangents. I blame myself for not getting to the point. I wish I could delete the thread but I can't so I will start this one and get right to the point. Since men don't experience pregnancy, should men at all be involved in the abortion debate? Why or why not?
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Absolutely they should be involved, but not to the extent that they can force a woman to either abort or not abort. Men should be involved only as the situation relates to them. If a man wants his child aborted -- if he doesn't feel ready to raise or support a child -- he should be able to opt-out of parenthood, just as a woman can opt-out if she so chooses. The woman could still have and raise the child, but without the father's financial support or any role in his child's life. Men, like women, should be able to opt-out only for a limited amount of time, say, the first trimester. That's more than fair.
 
MaggieD said:
Yes, of course they should be involved. Fifty percent of the destroyed fetuses are male, aren't they?
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Why would that matter? Are you suggesting men don't care about destroyed fetuses which are female?
 
jghiretire said:
If the resulting pregnancy is between consenting adults in a LTR relationship, then I would hope they would discuss it together. It takes 2 to play.
Other than that.............no
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Yep. Good post.
 
calamity said:
Why would that matter? Are you suggesting men don't care about destroyed fetuses which are female?
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No, Calamity. I'm suggesting they have a big dog in the fight. Jesus, what a ridiculous interpretation that is.
 
MaggieD said:
No, Calamity. I'm suggesting they have a big dog in the fight. Jesus, what a ridiculous interpretation that is.
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Your post stated that men should care because male fetuses are being destroyed too. So, I brought up the logical--men care about female fetuses too.
 
jimbo said:
Whoever said women shouldn't be involved in gun debates? Not I.

Putting aside for the moment that guns come in colors to match purses and that women buy them, a women's opinion is just as valuable as mine.
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This isn't the proper folder to discuss why women shouldn't be involved in the gun debate. I will start a thread in the gun debate folder to explain why women shouldn't be involved in it.
 
DebateChallenge said:
This isn't the proper folder to discuss why women shouldn't be involved in the gun debate. I will start a thread in the gun debate folder to explain why women shouldn't be involved in it.
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You're correct. I directly addressed another post. Yours to be exact.

"So most people here said men should be involved in the abortion debate, or at least have a right to their opinion. Well I could say women shouldn't be involved in certain debates or shouldn't have opinions about certain debates or if they do their opinions shouldn't count, such as the gun debate."

I will, however, make the same statement in your proposed new thread.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Since men don't experience pregnancy, should men at all be involved in the abortion debate? Why or why not?
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They can certainly be involved, but they had better take care to understand that they can't possibly grasp or fully empathize with women, and should therefore give them the benefit of the doubt and truly listen to what they have to say.

If men could get pregnant I guarantee you that abortion clinics would be as common as car dealerships. There would be instant birth control pills that could be taken any time within 48 hours of sex and they'd be cheaper than a cup of coffee.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I recently started another thread where I brought up the issue if men should be involved in the abortion debate but the thread has gone off on other tangents. I blame myself for not getting to the point. I wish I could delete the thread but I can't so I will start this one and get right to the point. Since men don't experience pregnancy, should men at all be involved in the abortion debate? Why or why not?
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Should men be allowed to have an opinion? Of course they should be.

With that said.
If society wants to make laws to include the father in the decision making process, it can do so.
If society wants to make an abortion murder, it can do so.
Thus far it has done neither of these.
Should society do any of these? That is likely to be a never ending debate.
 
DebateChallenge said:
I recently started another thread where I brought up the issue if men should be involved in the abortion debate but the thread has gone off on other tangents. I blame myself for not getting to the point. I wish I could delete the thread but I can't so I will start this one and get right to the point. Since men don't experience pregnancy, should men at all be involved in the abortion debate? Why or why not?
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I'll answer you in terms that will be unequivocal. Offer to change the law to accommodate women on this issue and take men out of it.

If it's her body and it's her baby, then it should be her problem. Otherwise the only purpose the man serves is to be her sperm donor, financial revenue generating resource, and a slave for the state since the government should be her revenue resource if she can't afford "her" baby. Questions?
 
DebateChallenge said:
I recently started another thread where I brought up the issue if men should be involved in the abortion debate but the thread has gone off on other tangents. I blame myself for not getting to the point. I wish I could delete the thread but I can't so I will start this one and get right to the point. Since men don't experience pregnancy, should men at all be involved in the abortion debate? Why or why not?
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Yes, men should be involved. That's how our political system works. You don't just get to weigh in on the things that involve you personally.
 
The only man that should be involved is the father of the child (in terms of choice debate). The man cannot force a women to keep a child but to say they shouldn't have a voice about their future child is abhorrent.

If the women doesn't want the kid and the man does then he loses it. But if he doesn't want the kid and the women does then he is forced into alimony payments.

Not sexist, but it's a gendered issue that should be sorted out. I think the women should require a valid reason to not birth a child IF the man wants the child also.
 
Who would exclude the wishes of the father of the child?

In cases where the father doesn't agree to ending the life of the fetus and the mother does it anyway the father should be able to charge her and the doctor who performed the procedure with a crime & with a lawsuit.

Men should definitely have an equal say in what happens to a pregnancy.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
If you mean the broader debate about it then yes, they should. Just as women she be involved in debates about whether or not the draft is justified or how much money to allocate for prostate cancer research.

But when it comes to the individual choice, that is all on the pregnant woman. She can ask for input if she wants but she is free to ignore it. One caveat I make is the potential father should be notified of the pregnancy ASAP and have the right to denounce or claim his paternal responsibilities at that time. The woman can use that information in her decision making process on whether or not to go through with the pregnancy.
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I find it sad that a man would not have the kind of relationship with the woman that he would not repeat not need a law in order to be notified of her condition or be ask by her for his inputs on the situation.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Absolutely they should be involved, but not to the extent that they can force a woman to either abort or not abort. Men should be involved only as the situation relates to them. If a man wants his child aborted -- if he doesn't feel ready to raise or support a child -- he should be able to opt-out of parenthood, just as a woman can opt-out if she so chooses. The woman could still have and raise the child, but without the father's financial support or any role in his child's life. Men, like women, should be able to opt-out only for a limited amount of time, say, the first trimester. That's more than fair.
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Can the woman opt out financially and he's stuck with the kid? Can she, as well, be against abortion and against taking financial responsibility for her action?
 
ecofarm said:
Can the woman opt out financially and he's stuck with the kid? Can she, as well, be against abortion and against taking financial responsibility for her action?
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That happens all the time. It's legal for a mother to drop off her baby -- no questions asked -- at a number of designated places in most states. No one should be "stuck with a kid" if they don't want the kid. It's the worst possible scenario for a child. But a man should have the same option a woman has to opt-out, financially and emotionally, within a set amount of time, perhaps in the first trimester. Just as she can't change her mind later in the pregnancy, neither should he be allowed to -- unless -- he didn't know the woman was pregnant. If she kept it from him, he should still have an amount of time, a month or so after he learns, to opt-out.
 
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