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If You Are Pro-Choice On Abortion, You Should Oppose Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Really? An embryo is not killed by having some of its stem cells removed? I would appreciate it if you could show me a link for this assertion, because it flies in the face of all that I know. If an embryo is not killed by it, then why would it be such a controversial political issue?

You necro-ed a thread that is similar to one you just posted.


Both show that you completely are ignorant of the pro-choice stance.


An embryo is not a person. Do you know of any pro-choicer that believes in embryonic personhood? Why would it be hypocritical for a prochoicer that believes a blastocyst that is not a person be used for stem cell research?

Can you explain your "thinking"?
 
[part 1 of 2, in reply to Msg #48]

My argument is not based on the potentiality of the zygote. Rather, it is based on the present status of the zygote.
YOUR CLAIM IS INVALID. Simply because the present status of a zygote includes a 2/3 chance that it will naturally die before birth. PLUS, the present status of a zygote includes a 100% chance that it will die if it does not receive Active External Help. Therefore you are assuming at least two potentials will be fulfilled. The receiving of Active External Help is not guaranteed (see your nearest ectopic pregnancy), and the genetics of the zygote are not guaranteed to be free of all possible fatal defects.

All of those other cells that, yes, can be reprogrammed to totipotency, are only potential persons, in my view.
THAT'S ANOTHER ERROR ON YOUR PART. Simply because you know what a person truly is, and it has nothing to do with properties of cells. For proof that you indeed do know what a person truly is, just Answer this Question: "If you were visiting a modern well-equipped medical laboratory, and some madman with a machete cut your head off in an attempt to murder you, but rescuers arrived in time, would you want them to save your headless human body, or your severed head, to save YOU-THE-PERSON?" (And we most certainly do have the medical technology to save your choice, else "head transplants" would not have been in the news recently. Therefore it is not a trick question, and it is not a loaded question.)

I think I have not gotten my point across clearly enough.
YOU DON'T HAVE A VALID POINT, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. Just lika all other abortion opponents have no valid reason to oppose abortion. All they have is Stupidly Prejudiced Master Race Idiocy about the word "human".

What bestows personhood upon the zygote is not its potential to differentiate into all other cell types, as you seem to think my argument was,
THAT IS INDEED AN IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR ARGUMENT. And it totally misses the point, since in the not-distant future True Artificial Intelligences, made of electronics instead of cells, will begin to exist. Your error of thinking/claiming that personhood has something to do with biology is as fundamentally obvious as it is fundamentally stupid and fundamentally wrong. And for another example of a widely-discussed entity that is claimed to qualify as a person, without having anything to do with biology, see any religionist talking about God's existence prior to the Big Bang (before biology existed, that is).

but, rather, that, by dint of possessing this potential,
STILL NOT ADEQUATELY DISTINGUISHING THAT POTENTIAL FROM A CUTICLE CELL'S POTENTIAL. The DNA of cells is rather equivalent to computer software. If two computers have all the same total installed software, but one is running a particular small part of that total, like a word-processing program, while the other computer is running a different small part of it, like an image-editing program, you are in-essence saying one computer is somehow superior to the other computer (deserves to be called a person), just because it is running a particular piece of software. Even though neither piece of software actually has anything to do with personhood (per the Question in red text above)!
 
[part 2 of 2, in reply to Msg #48]

long before it fulfills this potential by differentiating into those aforesaid cell types, it behaves in a manner oriented towards that differentiation;
YOU ARE STILL WORTHLESSLY BLATHERING ABOUT BIOLOGY. Even though it is easily proved that biology has nothing to do with personhood. Tsk, tsk!

hence, in the zygote, its potentiality becomes an actuality.
NOPE; The only actualities are (1) the zygote is running a different piece of DNA software than a cuticle cell, and (2) that piece of software has nothing to do with personhood. The software normally associated with personhood simply does not exist at that stage of human development, and for proof of THAT statement, see this link.

In other words, its potential has earmarked its present status, so that its present properties bear the hallmarks and the insignia of its potential.
MORE WORTHLESS BLATHER, because you are expecting that certain potentials will inevitably be fulfilled. Even though we have absolute proof it is not inevitable, thanks to the existence of "feral children". The Facts Are: (1) persons are made, not born, and (2) the making-of-a-human-person process happens entirely after birth, as a consequence of Nurture, not Nature.

Another cell that has the potential to be totipotent, but is not yet, can be said to truly possess only potential to differentiate, without that potential being manifested in its present status as an actual, current property of it, unlike the zygote.
THAT IS TRUE, YET NOT IMPORTANT. Simply because two computers installed with all the same software are entirely equivalent to each other, regardless of which portions of the total software is getting processed by those two computers.
 
Exactly. I made that point earlier in this thread. Now that alternative sources of stem cells are readily available, there is really no justification for the killing of embryos in vitro to remain legal.

How about we just do it anyways?
 
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