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Bad arguments your side makes

Abortion is a cop out...the easy way out...many people out there would love to have a baby to adopt and love...

With the fact how you can go from middle class to poverty in a blink of an eye from lay offs, I can see how women would opt for an abortion down that route.

And there's already enough kids to adopt.
 
With the fact how you can go from middle class to poverty in a blink of an eye from lay offs, I can see how women would opt for an abortion down that route.

And there's already enough kids to adopt.

Yeah because abortion is so cheap, right?

Kids yes...babies no...
 
She should have aborted all of her pregnancies; she had no business giving birth.

Stop LYING. How many YEARS are you going to spout this abject nonsense you do not believe? It's despicable and insulting.

:doh:roll:
 
The unborn human is not the property of the mother. The mother's body is the property of the mother. The unborn human is trespassing, and the mother has every right to remove it from her property. Violently if necessary.

Another example of TERRIBLE arguments pro-aborts make.

You can't create a helpless human being by your own deliberate action and put them exactly where they will then rest for several months and then claim "trespassing."

I can't even keep track anymore of the long list of abysmal claims in terms of which is worst, but this is arguably the most irrational claim your side ever makes.
 
Abortion is responsible. Birthing a child you cannot or will not care for isn't.

Killing another human being in order to abandon parental responsibility is NOT responsible.

By definition that would have to be the opposite.

This claim is so deranged, I already have to revisit the last's post "arguably the most irrational" bit.
 
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Yeah because abortion is so cheap, right?

Kids yes...babies no...

Adoption is not the answer to abortion that you think it is.

The US adoption agency's will NOT even talk to a pregnant woman about adoption until she is in her last trimester, before then the woman has already decided whether or not to electively abort the pregnancy.
 
You can't create a helpless human being by your own deliberate action and put them exactly where they will then rest for several months and then claim "trespassing."
First, you have no way of proving whether their actions were deliberate. Any attempt to do so would require a massive massive privacy violation of every single woman in the country, not just the ones who want to abort.

But secondly, yes you can.

If you invited a person into your home, then asked them to leave, and they refused you can have them physically removed by force. If killing them is the only way to accomplish that, then it is well within your rights.

Just last week a cop was found innocent of shooting a black man because he claimed the black guy was "threatening." Despite the fact that there is video and audio showing that he was unequivocally cooperating and surrendering to the officer.

The same week the state of Florida under an ultra conservative governor strengthed their already ridiculous "stand your ground" laws. Basically making it legal to commit murder so long as you can convince a jury(read: you're whitish) that you felt threatened by the person you killed(read: your victim was black).

Nobody has the right to cause you pain, nobody has the right to abuse your body, and even the threat of someone doing it to you is grounds for killing the person attempting to do so in every "pro-life" state in the country.

If you can do that to a fully formed human being outside your body, then you absolutely have the right to do it something that is trying to live inside your body.

The truth is that you don't hate this argument because it's bad, you hate this argument because you know damn well it's 100% correct, and have no chance of rebutting it.
 
Abortion is a cop out...the easy way out...many people out there would love to have a baby to adopt and love...

Women are not broodmares for the barren. How many pregnancies have YOU gestated to give an infertile couple a child?
 
Another example of TERRIBLE arguments
ABORTION OPPONENTS MAKE. While there are indeed some terrible arguments made by pro-choicers, the one you focused on, that I'm referencing by quoting you, is not one of them.

You can't create a
"YOU" DO NO SUCH THING. You are not your body! You are a mind, and you body is quite capable of doing various things that you don't control.

ONE OF YOUR STANDARD STUPID **LIES**. An unborn human is not helpless. Every ectopic pregnancy just adds to the proof it doesn't need a womb to start developing. Plus, it infuses oxytocin into its host's body to make its host its defender. If it was truly helpless, in accordance with your Stupid **Lie**, it would not be able to do either of those things!

ONE OF THE VERY FEW THINGS YOU GET RIGHT. Good show!

ANOTHER STUPID **LIE** FROM YOU. The more you fail to offer even the slightest bit of Objective Evidence that an unborn human qualifies as a "being", in the same way that an intelligent extraterrestrial could qualify as a "being", the more it is obvious that you are spouting a Stupid **Lie**.

by your own deliberate action
ANOTHER STUPID **LIE**. Sex does not force sperm and egg to merge. They are independently-acting entities. Therefore some folks are quite capable of deliberately having lots of sex while constantly failing to have any offspring. You are not your body! You can control various gross actions of your body, but that doesn't mean you can control whether or not a pregnancy happens --entirely because other independently-acting entities are involved, besides just you.

and put them
ANOTHER STUPID **LIE**. You are not your body! You do not create offspring, nor do you put them anywhere. Often enough they completely exit the womb all by themselves, without bothering to implant.

exactly where they will
ANOTHER STUPID **LIE**. There is no "will", when about 50% of zygotes Naturally fail to yield confirmed pregnancies, and about another 1/6 of confirmed pregnancies Naturally fail to yield live births.

then rest for several months and then claim "trespassing."
IT IS A VALID DESCRIPTION OF WHAT AN INDEPENDENTLY-ACTING ENTITY CAN DO. Sex does not force a blastocyst to implant into a womb, after all!
 
Killing another human being
IS NOT WHAT ABORTION IS INTENDED TO DO. Repeating your Stupid **LIE** about unborn humans will never make them qualify as "beings".

in order to abandon parental responsibility
ANOTHER STUPID **LIE**. You haven't offered the slightest bit of evidence that an unwanted unborn human is associated with "parental responsibility". DO remember that in Nature, when the environment is not suitable for raising offspring, a pregnant female can do "fetal resorption", her womb directly sucking the life and body-mass of an unborn mammal out of existence. Humans can sometimes do that, too, but more often, when the environment is not suitable for raising offspring , a pregnant woman can seek abortion. It is a different way to kill the offspring, the the net effect is the same --there is no "must" that a pregnancy be carried to term, when the environment is unsuitable!

is NOT responsible.
ABORTION IS FAR MORE RESPONSIBLE THAN LETTING THE BORN STARVE TO DEATH.
 
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Women are not broodmares for the barren. How many pregnancies have YOU gestated to give an infertile couple a child?

The main thing is I have not aborted any either..
 
I'm sort of middle-of-the-road on the issue right now (I think abortion should be legal for the majority of pregnancy and in cases of medical necessity, but also believe it's deeply morally wrong), so I feel comfortable commenting on both sides. Others have already stated the majority of my pet peeves, and most of the rest were actually demonstrated in-thread. The only one I haven't seen are pro-abortion arguments claiming that people would only oppose abortion because they dislike or disrespect women.

Just because you "hate" some members saying. "If you don't like abortion don't have one.", doesn't mean that it's not a valid argument. Or that it's necessarily a bad case. It's certainly a true argument that's easily achieved by anyone who opposes abortion.
Except it just begs the question. You're assuming prior to the argument that abortion is not criminally wrong and then using that assumption to argue against people who believ
The one that always hurts my brain the most is the "pro-choice in name only" people who spend almost as much time shaming and berating women as the anti's do. "I think abortion should stay legal, but only for the first 30 seconds of pregnancy, only if you beg for it, and you're a bad, bad person if you get one." Like, I get that they understand what a dehumanizing position being anti-choice is which is why they don't have the cojones to call themselves that, but what good are they doing defending women's rights if they spend literally all their time attacking them?
Why is this a bad argument? You can support someone's right to make a choice and still think that choice is wrong. Anyone who's spent...any time interacting with other people knows that there are incredibly ****ty and terrible things that people can do that are or should be legal. As far as bad arguments go, I find the "I aborted and I'm proud" sort of attitude to be not only distasteful but also ill-advised, since people who aren't already in agreement with pro-choice and/or feminist discourse are likely to be turned off by it.

Also, I hate the "pro-choice/anti-choice" and "pro-life/anti-life" rhetoric that comes from both sides. It somehow manages both to be the most circlejerkiest, uncharitable, self-congratulatory form of grandstanding possible and to sidestep the actual issue at hand: the legality of abortion. When discussing other issues we don't have a problem with labeling ourselves as pro- or anti-gay marriage or drug legalization or even war don't. I think this is emblematic of the entire debate as a whole, which is largely people talking past each other and viewing any disagreement with their own beliefs on the issue as crazy and wrong.
I don't *dislike* the argument that a ZEF isn't a person, but it just tends to miss the heart of the issue to me, which ISN'T whether ZEF's are people, no matter how much the anti's try to convince you otherwise. If that was the point, there'd be no rape exception. The point is the belief that sluts deserve punishment. To attack the anti position head-on, you have to ignore all the bluster about "life," and go straight for the heart: WOMEN are people, regardless of whether a ZEF is or not. On the rare occasion I've seen anti's change their mind, it has always been THAT ARGUMENT that did it, not the argument that ZEF's aren't people. So, I don't think it's a bad argument per se. I mean, it should be a good argument, if we were a society that cared about facts as much as we should. I just think it's ineffective in reality.
This is a good point. The corollary is that anti-abortion people should not slut-shame. I don't want my dislike of abortion to be polluted by right-wing hand-wringing about irrelevant sexual morality.

You didn't answer my question, though. Don't some people on your side say some stupid things? Why wouldn't you call them out?

To be fair, no one is responsible for anyone's arguments or statements except their own.
 
Why is this a bad argument? You can support someone's right to make a choice and still think that choice is wrong. Anyone who's spent...any time interacting with other people knows that there are incredibly ****ty and terrible things that people can do that are or should be legal. As far as bad arguments go, I find the "I aborted and I'm proud" sort of attitude to be not only distasteful but also ill-advised, since people who aren't already in agreement with pro-choice and/or feminist discourse are likely to be turned off by it.

Also, I hate the "pro-choice/anti-choice" and "pro-life/anti-life" rhetoric that comes from both sides. It somehow manages both to be the most circlejerkiest, uncharitable, self-congratulatory form of grandstanding possible and to sidestep the actual issue at hand: the legality of abortion. When discussing other issues we don't have a problem with labeling ourselves as pro- or anti-gay marriage or drug legalization or even war don't. I think this is emblematic of the entire debate as a whole, which is largely people talking past each other and viewing any disagreement with their own beliefs on the issue as crazy and wrong.

For a few reasons. One is that they almost universally rely on slut-shaming as you talk about here...

This is a good point. The corollary is that anti-abortion people should not slut-shame. I don't want my dislike of abortion to be polluted by right-wing hand-wringing about irrelevant sexual morality.

Two is that they usually support almost all of the same bans and limitations that anti-choicers do, apart from an honest out-right ban. They want to make it impossible to get medical abortions, which makes it harder for women to abort early, but then they also want to slash time limits in half, or sometimes even less.

Three is that a major part of the pro-choice movement is combating violence against women who are trying to make their choice, and these people usually perpetuate that violence, supporting shaming, attacking, and legal opposition to women in difficult positions.

Basically, they want to ban abortion and they want women who abort to be punished, but they don't have the balls to just come out of the closet about it. That's why I don't like it.

Women wanting to talk about their own experiences with abortion is NOT about trying to make themselves a political poster-child, and they have no obligation to give a crap if anyone is "turned off" by them saying they're proud of their decision. Abortion is a common part of the reproductive lives of women -- about 40% of American women will have one. They should be able to discuss their experiences without OTHER people politicizing their entire lives. Women don't exist as a political cudgel. They are people.

As far as the terminology goes, ya know what? I don't care. Because that's what it is.

They aren't pro-life if they don't care about the lives of women or children, which I see no reason to believe they do (for reasons partially explained in my previous post you quoted). They're simply against women having choices during pregnancy, which is anti-choice. I'm not going to call it something it isn't just to be a people-pleaser to people who have repeatedly told me they think women like me should die. I mean, the idea of having a civil discourse went out the window then and there.
 
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^ Another bad argument from a pro-abort.

Freedom of choice is an economic concept about a free market; it has nothing to do with abortion.

Abortion opponents / abolitionists are against denying personhood from human beings so you can kill them without legal consequence.

No one has told you you should die. :roll:
 
The main thing is I have not aborted any either..

Currently , you are a part of the vast majority of women in the USA.

We never know where the future will lead us.

Until you are past your child bearing years your point is moot.
 
Freedom of choice is an economic concept about a free market; it has nothing to do with abortion.
DOES THAT MEAN YOU FAVOR ARRANGED MARRIAGES? Instead of letting folks choose their own mates? OR, are you in favor of Authoritarianism instead of Democracy? OR, are you in favor of banning every Religion except your own, so that no one has any reason to switch? As usual, the abortion opponent blathers idiocy instead of sense --there are lots of choices in the world that are not directly related to economics. Sex is good exercise; so is jogging; so are doing cartwheels and jumping jacks. Yet according to your idiotic blathering, no one needs choice in that matter....

Abortion opponents / abolitionists are against denying personhood from human beings
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SIDE'S LIES, claiming personhood exists where it Objectively, Verifiably, doesn't. Like a cuticle cell, or a hydatidiform mole, or a brain-dead adult on life-support, or an unborn human. Denying personhood can only be done after it is proved some entity possesses personhood. Just like Denying Fact can only be done after getting exposed to a Fact (like, say, the Fact that unborn humans commit assault, worse than any ordinary parasite). Yet neither you nor any other abortion opponent has ever offered the slightest bit of Objectively Verfiable data supporting the claim that an unborn human qualifies as a person, similar to how, say, a dolphin might qualify as a person. You apparently can't even explain why, when Objective tests exists to detect personhood in some entity, non-humans should be tested but human entities (like hydatidiform moles, brain-dead adults on life-support, and the unborn) need not be tested. Tsk, tsk!

so you can kill them without legal consequence.
SEE ABOVE. And this. The Law assigns personhood to a limited set of entities; it does not explicitly deny personhood from any entity. AGAIN, denying personhood to unborn humans can only be done after they have been assigned personhood! Which has never happened in accordance with the US Constitution, despite your Stupid **LIES**.

No one has told you you should die. :roll:
MORE WORTHLESS BLATHER, HAVING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ABORTION. Tsk, tsk!
 
I hate how my side compromises their principles to appease pro-choice groups. Abortion is immoral period. In the case of rape or incest, abortion is still an abortion.

I am pro-life, though I am okay with the exception of rape, incest, or mortal danger to the life of the mother. I am also realistic enough to know that Roe Vs Wade is not likely to be overturned, even with a conservative tilt to the US Supreme Court. I am pro-life on moral grounds. I just do not accept the concept of abortion being used as an "Oops...I did not intend to get pregnant" form of birth control. And I also hold abortion mills in very low regard. And I consider Planned Parenthood as "evil".
 
Currently , you are a part of the vast majority of women in the USA.

We never know where the future will lead us.

Until you are past your child bearing years your point is moot.

I am...but I also kept my 3 pregnancies and raised them to be loving, caring, responsible adults...
 
I hate how my side compromises their principles to appease pro-choice groups.
THEY DIDN'T. Abortion was widely legal before the 1800s, and even when anti-abortion laws began getting written, exceptions were always included.

Abortion is immoral period.
WORTHLESS BLATHER, UNSUPPORTED BY ANY OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Why should a mere unsupported claim be believed, just because you (and others) blather it like idiots?

In the case of rape or incest, abortion is still an abortion.
TRUE. That doesn't mean there is a problem with abortion, though!
 
I am...but I also kept my 3 pregnancies and raised them to be loving, caring, responsible adults...

Unforturtuatly due to medical complications I miscarried two of my six pregnancies.

My husband and I have 4 children all grown now. Our children all own their own homes , 3 are married with children and they too,
are loving caring responsible adults.
 
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