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Why do some pro lifers hate it [W:295]

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
Then you quoted me wrong.

better luck next time
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Post 238 - I quoted you exactly

This from an attendee of a church.......
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

year2late said:
Post 238 - I quoted you exactly

This from an attendee of a church.......
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You accused me of denigrating her religion, which I did not do. I mentioned her church, not her religion.

Wrong again.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
You accused me of denigrating her religion, which I did not do. I mentioned her church, not her religion.

Wrong again.
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So you denigrated the building, but not her religion?What.....did it not have high enough ceilings for you?
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
This from an attendee of a church that believes there is nothing wrong with abortion, among other sins.
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RamFel said:
You "feel" that abortion is not a sin? If you want to be sure, than just start coming out against it! Regain some glory for yourself? You cannot go wrong. You should do it tonight.
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The Religious Coailation for Reproductive Choice which is made up Religious Jewish clergy and members, Many mainline Protestant Clergy and members as well as other Religious groups including Catholics for choice do not believe that abortion is a sin. In fact many do not even consider it a moral issue.

A few snips From the following article :

I was raised to respect differing views so the rigid views against abortion are hard for me to understand. I will often tell someone on the other side, “I respect you. I may disagree with your theological perspective, but I respect your views. But I think it’s totally arrogant for you to tell me that I need to believe what you believe.” It’s not that I think we should not try to win each other over. But we have to respect people’s different religious beliefs.

But what about people who believe that life begins at conception and that terminating a pregnancy is murder? For them, it may not just be about respecting or tolerating each other’s viewpoints; they believe this is an issue of life or death. What do you say to people who make that kind of argument?

I would say that they have a right to their beliefs, as do I. I would try to explain that my views are grounded in my religion, as are theirs. I believe that we must ensure that women are treated with dignity and respect and that women are able to follow the dictates of their conscience – and that includes their reproductive decisions. Ultimately, it is the government’s responsibility to ensure that women have the ability to make decisions of conscience and have access to reproductive health services.



Although abortion is a very difficult decision, it can be the most responsible decision a person can make when faced with an unintended pregnancy or a pregnancy that will have serious health consequences.

Depending on the circumstances, it might be selfish to bring a child into the world. You know, a lot of people say, “You must bring this child into the world.” They are 100 percent supportive while the child is in the womb. As soon as the child is born, they abort the child in other ways. They abort a child through lack of health care, lack of education, lack of housing, and through poverty, which can drive a child into drugs or the criminal justice system.

So is it selfish to bring children into the world and not care for them? I think the other side can be very selfish by neglecting the children we have already.

For all practical purposes, children whom we are neglecting are being aborted.
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Pro-Choice Does Not Mean Pro-Abortion: An Argument for Abortion Rights Featuring the Rev. Carlton Veazey | Pew Research Center
 
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

minnie616 said:
The Religious Coailation for Reproductive Choice which is made up Religious Jewish clergy and members, Many mainline Protestant Clergy and members as well as other Religious groups including Catholics for choice do not believe that abortion is a sin. In fact many do not even consider it a moral issue.

A few snips From the following article :



Pro-Choice Does Not Mean Pro-Abortion: An Argument for Abortion Rights Featuring the Rev. Carlton Veazey | Pew Research Center
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I just wanted to add a little background history to the Rev in the above article I posted.

To explore the case for abortion rights, the Pew Forum turns to the Rev. Carlton W. Veazey, who for more than a decade has been president of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. Based in Washington, D.C., the coalition advocates for reproductive choice and religious freedom on behalf of about 40 religious groups and organizations. Prior to joining the coalition, Veazey spent 33 years as a pastor at Zion Baptist Church in Washington, D.C.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

year2late said:
So you denigrated the building, but not her religion?What.....did it not have high enough ceilings for you?
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No, ugh, I was denigrating the church, as in the people of the church. The building has no guilt. Nor does her religion. She is in with a bad bunch of people and she isn't even aware of who her friends at the church are!

Does that answer your question?
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
No, ugh, I was denigrating the church, as in the people of the church. The building has no guilt. Nor does her religion. She is in with a bad bunch of people and she isn't even aware of who her friends at the church are!

Does that answer your question?
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Her religion is ok with abortion. You are denigrating her religion.

At least you could own up to the real meaning of your comments.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

year2late said:
Her religion is ok with abortion. You are denigrating her religion.

At least you could own up to the real meaning of your comments.
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No I am not.. I not not denigrating her religion.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
No I am not.. I not not denigrating her religion.
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The people within the church and the religion believe that abortion is not a sin.

Of course you are denigrating her religion .
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

year2late said:
Her religion is ok with abortion. You are denigrating her religion.

At least you could own up to the real meaning of your comments.
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I think that responsibility belong to the one who got the quote wrong.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
I think that responsibility belong to the one who got the quote wrong.
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I quoted you exactly. There was no misquote.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Henrin said:
Because it is almost always used to dehumanize the unborn.
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How can you dehumanize a human?
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Elvira said:
We believe it becomes a living soul at conception...otherwise it would be a dead soul...the Bible speaks of living souls as well as dead souls when talking about humans and animals...
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The Bible is completely irrelevant to scientific discussion....
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Bodhisattva said:
The Bible is completely irrelevant to scientific discussion....
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People are entitled to their own philosophical beliefs. But they are not entitled to insist we believe in their philosophy.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

year2late said:
Like I said, I quoted you exactly.

This is boring.
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You misquoted me. You can quit any time if you're bored.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Elvira said:
We believe it becomes a living soul at conception
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SENSELESS BLATHER. Conception is a purely physical/biological event, a set of chemical reactions. You appear to be suffering from an ancient delusion called "vitalism" --which was proved false back in 1828.

PERHAPS you should look at the first two messages in this Thread.

Elvira said:
...otherwise it would be a dead soul...
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FALSE. A living animal entity is a living animal entity. A human zygote has many similarities to other single-celled living things, like amoeba and paramecia. I'm pretty sure Religions don't go around claiming that the average microbe has a soul --why should a human zygote be any different? Stupid Prejudice? Tsk, tsk!

Elvira said:
the Bible speaks of living souls as well as dead souls when talking about humans and animals...
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IT IS KNOWN THAT TRANSLATIONS OF ORIGINAL BIBLICAL TEXT DON'T ALWAYS REFLECT ORIGINAL MEANING. In English, the phrase "dead soul" appears to refer to any soul that was freed when somebody died --and therefore the soul is still "alive" (whatever that means in terms of metaphysics). LOGICALLY, a "living soul" would be a soul still associated with a living body. DO NOTE that the Bible does not say when a soul begins its association with a human body. The Catholic Church used to say that it happened at "quickening" (when an unborn human begins to "kick" in the womb). That that Church so easily changed its tune in the mid-1800s, to now claim ensoulment happens at conception, just proves that the Bible is actually silent on the topic, and that we are hearing nothing more than an **unsupported**opinion** --and that even the original claim, regarding quickening, was just an unsupported opinion, too!
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
This from an attendee of a church that believes there is nothing wrong with abortion, among other sins.
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RamFel said:
You misquoted me. You can quit any time if you're bored.
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Am I "doctoring" your post?

These are your posts, correct?

Your insistence that the first is a misquote is becoming pathological.

I will give you credit for editing out her screen name (I think F.I.C quoted with her name in place before your edit)
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

year2late said:
Am I "doctoring" your post?

These are your posts, correct?

Your insistence that the first is a misquote is becoming pathological.

I will give you credit for editing out her screen name (I think F.I.C quoted with her name in place before your edit)
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I did edit her name out but I did not denigrate her religion. I denigrated the people of her church.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
I did edit her name out but I did not denigrate her religion. I denigrated the people of her church.
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A RELIGION CONSISTS OF PEOPLE WHO HOLD A PARTICULAR SET OF BELIEFS. So, if you denigrate people because of their beliefs (because you have different beliefs), you are denigrating their religion. (Me, I try to restrict my denigrations to actions, not people. The spouting of worthless blather is an action, see?)
 
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
No, ugh, I was denigrating the church, as in the people of the church. The building has no guilt. Nor does her religion. She is in with a bad bunch of people and she isn't even aware of who her friends at the church are!

Does that answer your question?
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year2late said:
Her religion is ok with abortion. You are denigrating her religion.

At least you could own up to the real meaning of your comments.
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year2late is correct Ramfel you are denigrating my religion.

From the RCRC

Pro Faith. Pro Family. Pro Choice.

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC) is a broad-based, national, interfaith movement that brings the moral force of religion to protect and advance reproductive health, choice, rights and justice through education, prophetic witness, pastoral presence and advocacy.
RCRC values and promotes religious liberty which upholds the human and constitutional rights of all people to exercise their conscience to make their own reproductive health decisions without shame and stigma .
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Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice is a grassroots organization that is “Pro-Faith. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice.” The RCRC’s stated mission is “to be the leading religious voice for reproductive justice in the country.”



Current members :

Judaism
American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress, Anti-Defamation League, Central Conference of American Rabbis, Jewish Reconstructionist Movement, Jewish Women International, NA’AMAT USA, National Council of Jewish Women, Rabbinical Assembly, Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association, Society for Humanistic Judaism, Union for Reform Judaism, Women of Reform Judaism, Women’s League for Conservative Judaism.

Christian (Protestant)
Disciples for Choice, Episcopal Church, Episcopal Women’s Caucus, General Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church, Lutheran Women’s Caucus, Methodist Federation for Social Action, Metropolitan Community Church, Presbyterian Mission Agency, Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO), United Church of Christ, United Methodist Women.
Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, Unitarian Universalist Women’s Federation.

Christian (Catholic)
Catholics for Choice
 
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

minnie616 said:
year2late is correct Ramfel you are denigrating my religion.

From the RCRC



Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice is a grassroots organization that is “Pro-Faith. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice.” The RCRC’s stated mission is “to be the leading religious voice for reproductive justice in the country.”



Current members :

Judaism
American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress, Anti-Defamation League, Central Conference of American Rabbis, Jewish Reconstructionist Movement, Jewish Women International, NA’AMAT USA, National Council of Jewish Women, Rabbinical Assembly, Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association, Society for Humanistic Judaism, Union for Reform Judaism, Women of Reform Judaism, Women’s League for Conservative Judaism.

Christian (Protestant)
Disciples for Choice, Episcopal Church, Episcopal Women’s Caucus, General Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church, Lutheran Women’s Caucus, Methodist Federation for Social Action, Metropolitan Community Church, Presbyterian Mission Agency, Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO), United Church of Christ, United Methodist Women.
Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, Unitarian Universalist Women’s Federation.

Christian (Catholic)
Catholics for Choice
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No she is wrong because there are many churches in the world (no I do not mean religions) and of all of them, many have sinners of varying degrees and it is probably safe to assume that many will go to hell. Not all Christians are worthy, including me. That is not religion. That is church building. So year2late is wrong!
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

RamFel said:
No she is wrong because there are many churches in the world (no I do not mean religions) and of all of them, many have sinners of varying degrees and it is probably safe to assume that many will go to hell. Not all Christians are worthy, including me. That is not religion. That is church building. So year2late is wrong!
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No you are wrong.

You are not only being intolerant of my religion but you are being arrogant since you are telling me that I need to believe what you believe.

I am a Christian also.

My church and I believe that the woman is a moral agent and she can make thoughtful decisions regarding her reproductive health.

I may disagree with you about when ensoulment happens but I respect your beliefs.

Too bad you feel the need to tell me that my religion is wrong and that I am a sinner because my religions beliefs are different than yours.
 
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

minnie616 said:
No you are wrong.

You are not only being intolerant of my religion but you are being arrogant since you are telling me that I need to believe what you believe.

I am a Christian also.

My church and I believe that the woman is a moral agent and she can make thoughtful decisions regarding her reproductive health.

I may disagree with you about when ensoulment happens but I respect your beliefs.

Too bad you feel the need to tell me that my religion is wrong and that I am a sinner because my religions beliefs are different than yours.
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Maybe at some point he will understand how to disagree with someone's beliefs without denigrating their religion.

You just showed him how by example.

I say it on a regular basis. I can respect someone's religious beliefs. I disrespect them trying to push them on me.
 
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