Why do some pro lifers hate it [W:295]

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

Why are you so offended by calling a zygote/embryo/fetus a ZEF while not being offended by racist comments?

Click to expand...

You have no basis for this comment: "Not offended by racist comments."

If someone here said "niggers aren't human beings," I'd have the same response, because it's the same thing.


Actually, no... the bigotry from you and your pro-abort peers is worse.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

Because it is a bigoted, dehumanizing slur.

Those who use that well-known racial slur to refer to black folks on average have less hate for black folks than those who use ZEFs to refer to the Homo sapiens in utero.

Click to expand...

It is not, it is not bigoted, it is not dehumanizing (utterly ridiculous, it is just an acronym), it does not dehumanize at all and it most certainly is not a slur.

And I do not hate aborted ZEF's at all, it is also not my place to love them. I love humanity and am a big supporter of providing health care, good education, time with their parent/parents, loads of free time, good future prospects and a safe society in which children are nurtured and loved. I however do not love nor hate ZEF's while often still invisible in other people's wombs.

Your bigoted slurs towards pro-choice posters is what is truly deplorable.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Henrin said:

Because it is almost always used to dehumanize the unborn.

Click to expand...

False, it is used to determine the gestational stages a pregnancy goes through.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Peter King said:

It is not, it is not bigoted, it is not dehumanizing (utterly ridiculous, it is just an acronym), it does not dehumanize at all and it most certainly is not a slur.

Click to expand...

Peter, denial of reality is your modus operandi at this point. :shrug:

You're profoundly bigoted against the unborn. You not only deny not their humanity but you deny they're even living organisms being killed. You deny the most basic tenets of reality, blinded as you are by your irrational disdain for your fellow human beings.

Granted, all pro-aborts do this sort of thing to some extent, but your hatred really goes the extra mile to be something exceptionally deplorable.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Peter King said:

False, it is used to determine the gestational stages a pregnancy goes through.

Click to expand...

Got to get me some of those zefs, need me some catfish bait, the river is up!

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

The thing is, Layla--I believe that many prolifers are genuine and sincere about their beliefs, even if a loud minority of y'all tries to drown the rest of you out. I mean, if a fetus is a human, a real live human, shouldn't it be that there is no sane reason to kill him/her unless he/she poses a catastrophic health risk to the mother? Wellllll...turns out, no. It's not that simple. Even if we suppose for the sake of argument that a ZEF is a human, that alone isn't sufficient to justify the banning of abortion in nearly all cases. Why? Viability. Viability is a key reason abortion has to be allowed up through a certain stage in the pregnancy. It was, if you'll recall, a key part of the ruling of Roe v. Wade, even if the plaintiffs didn't make that argument themselves.

Click to expand...

Not sure what that has to do with the majority of pro-lifers not being offended by the acronym ZEF. ANd yes I'm sure there are regular pro-lifers, pro-choicers and extremists and nut cases on both sides that are sincere in their beliefs. That doesn't make them not extreme or truthful. To your post though a "fetus" is always a human by definition. And yes I'm fully aware that viability is the basis of ROE vs wade. They picked the date based on 50% at the time. But again though, what does that have to do with the extremists that absurdly get bent out of shape over the acronym ZEF

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

You have no basis for this comment: "Not offended by racist comments."

If someone here said "niggers aren't human beings," I'd have the same response, because it's the same thing.

Click to expand...

Really? Because I distinctly remember you saying:

Again, we're not talking about some mild off-color racial jokes here and someone's "oooh, I'm so offended,"

Click to expand...

Sounds to me, Jay, from your words, that there's a little bit of wiggle room when it comes to racism, but when it comes to simply using the first letters of zygotes/embryos/fetuses as a simple acronym, you call it a slur.

The mental gymnastics required to arrive at such a conclusion must be worthy of an Olympic gold medal.

Actually, no... the bigotry from you and your pro-abort peers is worse.

Click to expand...

And here comes the dishonesty and name-calling. Right on cue. Go ahead and keep on demonstrating everything that's wrong with your side.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

LaylaWindu said:

Not sure what that has to do with the majority of pro-lifers not being offended by the acronym ZEF. ANd yes I'm sure there are regular pro-lifers, pro-choicers and extremists and nut cases on both sides that are sincere in their beliefs. That doesn't make them not extreme or truthful. To your post though a "fetus" is always a human by definition. And yes I'm fully aware that viability is the basis of ROE vs wade. They picked the date based on 50% at the time. But again though, what does that have to do with the extremists that absurdly get bent out of shape over the acronym ZEF

Click to expand...

Fair points, mostly, although I don't think we agree about the existence of extremists of the pro-choice side. If there are any, I've never run across them.

I don't get what the big deal about the acronym is either. :shrug:

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

Sounds to me, Jay, from your words, that there's a little bit of wiggle room when it comes to racism, but when it comes to simply using the first letters of zygotes/embryos/fetuses as a simple acronym, you call it a slur.

Click to expand...

You're the one talking about political correctness!

That's the sort of thing where "PC" actually applies, the humorless extinction of even someone's jocular off-color remarks, you know, from someone who doesn't actually believe other people are inferior on the basis of their race / gender / whatever. Think, oh yeah, like almost every comedy routine ever. And then people get butthurt over jokes.

You pro-aborts on the other hand legitimately hate the unborn as evidenced by the fact that you consider them subhuman, want them denied personhood, and want no prosecution to occur when they are violently and needlessly killed.

That's a far cry from some anti-free speech jerks pushing a PC agenda whining about a joke.

If you don't see the difference... well, I'm not surprised. But you're the one bringing up this particular irrelevant concept. :shrug:

And here comes the dishonesty and name-calling. Right on cue. Go ahead and keep on demonstrating everything that's wrong with your side.

Click to expand...

:shrug:

That's honesty. You're pro-abortion. It would be intellectually dishonest to frame this issue in terms of a wholly irrelevant economic concept... which is what you and your pro-abort peers do by lying and calling your position "pro-choice."

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

Fair points, mostly, although I don't think we agree about the existence of extremists of the pro-choice side. If there are any, I've never run across them.

I don't get what the big deal about the acronym is either. :shrug:

Click to expand...

Really? So those (while few) that claim the believe that no stages of the ZEF are human adj or noun are not extremists? If they believe in and try to sell proven lies I'd say they are. What about those that support abortion in any situation AND any time frame. Meaning they support a women just deciding they want to abort because they changed their mind at 8months, 3 weeks and 6 days. Yes I know abortions like that don't generally happen but I am asking about people who support that. I'd call them extremists.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

If there are any, I've never run across them.

Click to expand...

Do you want to Google Image Search your own spit take gif of choice, or should I pick one for this occasion?

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Henrin said:

No, it's because you guys use it in a way to dehumanize. If you guys used it while showing respect to the unborn it would be different, but you guys use it to say the unborn is filth that is nothing but a burden that is probably out to kill the woman or make her life miserable.

Click to expand...

Nope, that is another false statement. We do not over=humanize other people's zygotes like some people do. I have no right to interfere in medical decisions women want to make.

We respect the human being in the abortion issue, the women. And respect is more than paying lip service to fetuses and then condemning them to a society where health care, food, education, love by parents, parental access are in short supply because sadly politicians in the US care more about the rich in the US than that they care about those who are not born rich. When they are in the womb they are so important that the rights of women have to be stripped from them but when they are born these same politicians could care less for them.

Is that respecting "the unborn"? Sorry no, in the Netherlands the unborn are respected. Free prenatal care, free post natal care, free health care until age 18, free dental care until age 18, a good safety net, a safe and pleasant place to live, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. It is not for nothing that the happiest children in the World are Dutch children. We respect our children.

And we do not think of a ZEF that is aborted as filth, that is one of the most ridiculous things to say IMHO. But we also do not value it more than the woman who had it aborted. I think it is sad when abortions take place, sad for the mother, a bit sad for what could have been. But it is not my choice to make but that pregnant woman's choice to make. And I would much rather concentrate on the children actually in this world who are starving, have no safe house to live in, are sick, have addicted parents, have aids, etc. etc. etc. and also concentrate on sex education, birth control and abortion prevention instead. But that is just me, that is what I think is respecting the unborn (by protecting and providing for them when they are born).

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

LaylaWindu said:

Really? So those (while few) that claim the believe that not stages of the ZEF are human adj or noun are not extremists? If they believe in and try to sell proven lies I'd say they are. What about those that support abortion in any situation AND any time frame. Meaning they support a women just deciding they want to abort because they changed their mind at 8months, 3 weeks and 6 days. Yes I know abortions like that don't generally happen but I am asking about people who support that. I'd call them extremists.

Click to expand...

How exactly is supporting late-term abortion on-demand enough to qualify that person as an extremist? As much as that might put that person near the extreme on the spectrum--so in that sense it might make them an "extremist"--political extremism is just as much the methods as it is the position. Off the top of my head, I don't know of pro-life groups who:

-Record license plate numbers of patients.
-Illegally record videos of discussions over the shipping and handling costs of fetal tissue (and then lie their asses off about what was actually discussed in those conversations).
-Once in a while, have a terrorist attack an anti-choice group.

Again, this is not to be construed as how all of y'all behave. But there is that undesirable element on the prolife side. They're sure as hell not going to listen to liberal, godless me, so sensible pro-lifers such as yourself are the only ones who can teach the more radical prolifers how to fight fair.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Henrin said:

ZEF is not a scientific term. So..

Click to expand...

it is an acronym of the scientific names of the gestational stages of mammal pregnancies. So the acronym might not be a scientific term (if you want to nitpick) but the words it stands for totally are scientific terms.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Quote from Ronald Reagen < I notice everyone for abortion, has already been born>

Slingshot Bob adds, if it is such a fine idea, get in a time machine and prove it, report back.

I would let you borrow my time machine, not sure how I would get it back!

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

I mean, I suppose one might mistakenly "think" it absurd to consider all human beings people if they are so wrapped up in their own bigotry that they oppose equality.

I think your bigotry is absurd though, because it objectively is.

Click to expand...

No, that is your utterly subjective opinion.

Also, there is a huge difference between being biologically human and being a human being/someone who has personhood rights.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

You're the one talking about I]political correctness!

That's the sort of thing where "PC" actually applies, the humorless extinction of even someone's jocular off-color remarks, you know, from someone who doesn't actually believe other people are inferior on the basis of their race / gender / whatever. Think, oh yeah, like almost every comedy routine ever. And then people get butthurt over jokes.

You pro-aborts on the other hand legitimately hate the unborn as evidenced by the fact that you consider them subhuman, want them denied personhood, and want no prosecution to occur when they are violently and needlessly killed.

That's a far cry from some anti-free speech jerks pushing a PC agenda whining about a joke.

If you don't see the difference... well, I'm not surprised. But you're the one bringing up this particular irrelevant concept. :shrug:

:shrug:

Click to expand...

No no no no no. You don't get to shrug off your acceptance of some forms of racism while trying to convince me (with a VERY hostile tone nonetheless) that "ZEF" is an offensive slur. Your argument is stuck on this flaw which you choose not to correct.

That's honesty. You're pro-abortion. It would be intellectually dishonest to frame this issue in terms of a wholly irrelevant economic concept... which is what you and your pro-abort peers do by lying and calling your position "pro-choice."

Click to expand...

You, Jay, are in zero position to lecture others about right and wrong. Nobody should take you seriously when you tell such bald-faced lies. You deliberately and intentionally choose not to understand why our side believes what it believes. You believe that you are an expert on this topic and know everything there is to know.

And you're not even a Christian, right? Where exactly do you get this standard of morality from? Ayn Rand??

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

That's political correctness from the Right--a.k.a. populist correctness. Or is your side the only one who gets to scoff at accusations of slurs?

Click to expand...

Yes, some on the right think they have the right to be as politically incorrect as they want but they in turn feel that when we say what we mean we suddenly have to be politically correct in how we describe things.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Phys251 said:

How exactly is supporting late-term abortion on-demand enough to qualify that person as an extremist? As much as that might put that person near the extreme on the spectrum--so in that sense it might make them an "extremist"--political extremism is just as much the methods as it is the position. Off the top of my head, I don't know of pro-life groups who:

-Record license plate numbers of patients.
-Illegally record videos of discussions over the shipping and handling costs of fetal tissue (and then lie their asses off about what was actually discussed in those conversations).
-Once in a while, have a terrorist attack an anti-choice group.

Again, this is not to be construed as how all of y'all behave. But there is that undesirable element on the prolife side. They're sure as hell not going to listen to liberal, godless me, so sensible pro-lifers such as yourself are the only ones who can teach the more radical prolifers how to fight fair.

Click to expand...

Ill ask you again. If a person supports abortion for any reason up to 8months, 3weeks and 6 days do you consider them extremists? yes or no If a person believes that all stages of the ZEF are not human adj or non do you think they are extremists? Yes or no

Now for you randomness, yes anybody that does that is a complete WACK JOB (recording plate numbers etc.) but that doesn't really change my questions. I typically don't pay attention to what whack jobs do because again, they are whack jobs and not representative of the group. As far as "me" teaching them, that's impossible, there's no saving nut cases like that. They hate me as much as they hate you because they are extremists. One of the people you are debating with I can't see their posts because they were one of the first people blocked here. Nutcase, loony, retarded lies like that person commonly posts aren't representative of prolife. They are laughed at for the dishonest, uncivil, insanity they are.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

It's not political correctness to note what is objectively bigotry and point out how ugly and disgusting it is. :shrug:


Again, we're not talking about some mild off-color racial jokes here and someone's "oooh, I'm so offended," we're talking you people don't think some human beings are actually human and you think it's okay to kill them.


Abolitionists of slavery were not being "politically correct."

Click to expand...

1. there is no issue of politically incorrectness by using an acronym

2. we are not bigoted purely by using that acronym

3. you pointing out how ugly and disgusting something is? :lamo Sorry, but that is the pot calling the kettle black, as the proverbial idiom goes

4. and yes, it is a woman's legal right to decide what happens in her womb during the early part of the pregnancy. Most people may not like it, but this is not an issue of like or loath but it is about respecting a woman's right to choose.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

:roll:

You want some human beings to be treated as subhuman property to be killed on a whim, with no legal consequences for their killers.

Words mean things.

Click to expand...

1. not my zygote, not your zygote but the zygote of someone else who has the right to decide what happens in her womb in the early part of the pregnancy

2. abortion usually is not a whim

3. and of course there are not legal consequences, just psychological ones. And there are no legal consequences because IT IS A LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE!!!

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

LaylaWindu said:

Ill ask you again. If a person supports abortion for any reason up to 8months, 3weeks and 6 days do you consider them extremists? yes or no If a person believes that all stages of the ZEF are not human adj or non do you think they are extremists? Yes or no

Click to expand...

I need to know what your personal definition of the word "extremist" is before I can answer that question. If it has to do simply with positions, then yes, such a person would be considered an extremist, simply because that's about as far as one can go on the pro-choice spectrum. But if it has to do with how one advocates for those positions, then no, simply holding said views would not be enough to qualify.

Now for you randomness, yes anybody that does that is a complete WACK JOB (recording plate numbers etc.) but that doesn't really change my questions. I typically don't pay attention to what whack jobs do because again, they are whack jobs and not representative of the group. As far as "me" teaching them, that's impossible, there's no saving nut cases like that. They hate me as much as they hate you because they are extremists. One of the people you are debating with I can't see their posts because they were one of the first people blocked here. Nutcase, loony, retarded lies like that person commonly posts aren't representative of prolife. They are laughed at for the dishonest, uncivil, insanity they are.

Click to expand...

To an extent, I could see where you're coming from. But what did we hear from the pro-life side when an abortion clinic was attacked in Colorado Springs a couple years ago? Deafening silence. There was some condemnation against it, but it felt forced, and it was not universal among the Right. Same goes with prior attacks against other abortion clinics in the past, and the many, many threats of death and violence that abortion caregivers receive all the time. That ****'s on your side, Layla. Not all of y'all do it--in fact I think a clear majority don't. But it's a thing, it is there, and to be perfectly frank, we cannot have civil conversations about abortion itself until the extremists tone down the rhetoric and the occasional violence. Only those of y'all who are civil pro-lifers can help, because they sure aren't going to listen to us.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

Peter King said:

No, that is your utterly subjective opinion.

Also, there is a huge difference between being biologically human and being a human being/someone who has personhood rights.

Click to expand...

Wrong. Throughout our entire life we are a member of the human race and thus always a human being.

Peter King said:

Nope, that is another false statement. We do not over=humanize other people's zygotes like some people do. I have no right to interfere in medical decisions women want to make.

We respect the human being in the abortion issue, the women. And respect is more than paying lip service to fetuses and then condemning them to a society where health care, food, education, love by parents, parental access are in short supply because sadly politicians in the US care more about the rich in the US than that they care about those who are not born rich. When they are in the womb they are so important that the rights of women have to be stripped from them but when they are born these same politicians could care less for them.

Is that respecting "the unborn"? Sorry no, in the Netherlands the unborn are respected. Free prenatal care, free post natal care, free health care until age 18, free dental care until age 18, a good safety net, a safe and pleasant place to live, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. It is not for nothing that the happiest children in the World are Dutch children. We respect our children.

And we do not think of a ZEF that is aborted as filth, that is one of the most ridiculous things to say IMHO. But we also do not value it more than the woman who had it aborted. I think it is sad when abortions take place, sad for the mother, a bit sad for what could have been. But it is not my choice to make but that pregnant woman's choice to make. And I would much rather concentrate on the children actually in this world who are starving, have no safe house to live in, are sick, have addicted parents, have aids, etc. etc. etc. and also concentrate on sex education, birth control and abortion prevention instead. But that is just me, that is what I think is respecting the unborn (by protecting and providing for them when they are born).

Click to expand...

Then you guys need to do a better job of presenting your argument because from where I sit all see from you guys is a constant attempt to declare that the unborn is lesser and not worthy of consideration. According to the argument you guys present is by all accounts nothing more and nothing less than what the woman considers it. If she values it then you stand besides her, and if she thinks it is filth that is just a "clump of cells" then you stand beside her. This is because your side doesn't really value anything but her opinion and what she thinks. The unborn doesn't really come into the equation because to your side it is nothing of value.

Also, I'm way past the point of desiring to want to deal with the absurd bull**** about how I have to support government welfare if I care about human life. I will not be addressing that point in any depth.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

You have no basis for this comment: "Not offended by racist comments."

If someone here said "niggers aren't human beings," I'd have the same response, because it's the same thing.


Actually, no... the bigotry from you and your pro-abort peers is worse.

Click to expand...

Actually it is not the same thing, the N-word is a widely acknowledged offensive word, ZEF is not an widely acknowledge offensive word/slur at all. You may feel that it is but that is not the same as the "N-word" has negative connotations for black people. So it is absolutely not the same thing.

Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it

JayDubya said:

Peter, denial of reality is your modus operandi at this point. :shrug:

You're profoundly bigoted against the unborn. You not only deny not their humanity but you deny they're even living organisms being killed. You deny the most basic tenets of reality, blinded as you are by your irrational disdain for your fellow human beings.

Granted, all pro-aborts do this sort of thing to some extent, but your hatred really goes the extra mile to be something exceptionally deplorable.

Click to expand...

Sure, I am bigoted just because you have a totally illogical view on the abortion issue, got it. It is of course utter nonsense but that has never stopped you before so why would it stop you know from making false statements about fellow posters.

And again, you say killed, I say aborted. Yours is an highly personal outrage view on the process of abortion, I use abortion because that is the medical procedure it is. Afterwards the aborted embryo or fetus will no longer be able to continue growing/gestating and will subsequently "be no longer alive".

And the rest of your usual song and dance I am going to leave alone because it is the normal irrational, illogical, untruthful, made up, nonsensical pack of lies/insults and :bs that you regularly post at people and I think it says more about you than it will ever say about me.