Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
So it's alive but it's not alive...that doesn't make sense...
So it's alive but it's not alive...that doesn't make sense...
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Why do some pro lifers hate it [W:295]
- Thread starter GEIxBattleRifle
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Scientifically an unborn is alive ...when does it become a living soul?
We ( Mainline Christian Curches and their members ) believe it becomes a living soul after birth. When it breaths its first breath known as the breath of life.
The Breath of Life:
In the Bible when God created Adam God :
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).
Also, these verses in Genesis (6:17; 7:15, 22) refer to the “breath of life,”
And in Job “The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life” (Job 33:4).
More Bible verses:
By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.
Psalms 33:6
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army...
13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
Ezekiel 37 9-10, 13-14
Scientifically an unborn is alive ...when does it become a living soul?
We ( Mainline Christian Curches and their members ) believe it becomes a living soul after birth. When it breaths its first breath known as the breath of life.
The Breath of Life:
In the Bible when God created Adam God :
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).
Also, these verses in Genesis (6:17; 7:15, 22) refer to the “breath of life,”
And in Job “The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life” (Job 33:4).
More Bible verses:
By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.
Psalms 33:6
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army...
13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
Ezekiel 37 9-10, 13-14
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Actually it does make sense, when we are brain dead our body is still "alive" technically but does not have live in it anymore because that which makes us a living person is our brain/soul (however you want to call it, based on religion/other views), as soon as that is gone there is just a shell made up of body parts/organs.
Actually it does make sense, when we are brain dead our body is still "alive" technically but does not have live in it anymore because that which makes us a living person is our brain/soul (however you want to call it, based on religion/other views), as soon as that is gone there is just a shell made up of body parts/organs.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
That is your personal opinion and that is all fine and dandy, but the US is a republic, not a theocracy and religion is a personal private matter and I did/do not just not choose to follow a holy book, I choose not to believe in any of it.
But that does not mean that religious people are not free to refuse to ever have an abortion, not following a religious book as the basis of laws in a country makes everybody else free (even religious people) to follow what the believe is right, especially when it comes to something as highly personal as abortion/the right to choose.
That is your personal opinion and that is all fine and dandy, but the US is a republic, not a theocracy and religion is a personal private matter and I did/do not just not choose to follow a holy book, I choose not to believe in any of it.
But that does not mean that religious people are not free to refuse to ever have an abortion, not following a religious book as the basis of laws in a country makes everybody else free (even religious people) to follow what the believe is right, especially when it comes to something as highly personal as abortion/the right to choose.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
But the US is not a theocracy and what people 4 centuries (or 2 if you want) believed about science and biology is ludicrous and wrong. You may want to live by a book of stories, others do not and it is not up to a government to enforce laws based on religious views.
But the US is not a theocracy and what people 4 centuries (or 2 if you want) believed about science and biology is ludicrous and wrong. You may want to live by a book of stories, others do not and it is not up to a government to enforce laws based on religious views.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
No, because it does not have a functioning brain until the higher brainwaves kick in and that is past the time abortions take place.
No, because it does not have a functioning brain until the higher brainwaves kick in and that is past the time abortions take place.
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
We believe it becomes a living soul at conception...otherwise it would be a dead soul...the Bible speaks of living souls as well as dead souls when talking about humans and animals...
We believe it becomes a living soul at conception...otherwise it would be a dead soul...the Bible speaks of living souls as well as dead souls when talking about humans and animals...
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Yes, but the bible also says you should stone rebellious and unruly children to death.
The bible is not a relevant source for medical decisions in our time, you may want to live by the rules in that book, but other people should be free to think otherwise and to live (as long as it is in accordance with what is allowed within criminal law) as they choose and make medical decisions based on actual science rather than a book of stories from before the dark ages.
Yes, but the bible also says you should stone rebellious and unruly children to death.
The bible is not a relevant source for medical decisions in our time, you may want to live by the rules in that book, but other people should be free to think otherwise and to live (as long as it is in accordance with what is allowed within criminal law) as they choose and make medical decisions based on actual science rather than a book of stories from before the dark ages.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Here we go again. It is an acronym. No more no less.
When speaking in the abortion debate we usually do not know the stage. So some use ZEF to indicate one of the stages. No slur.
Here we go again. It is an acronym. No more no less.
When speaking in the abortion debate we usually do not know the stage. So some use ZEF to indicate one of the stages. No slur.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Quite right, abortion can take place in all three stages of gestation, to say abortion of the fetus is often wrong because the abortion often takes place before that gestational stage of the pregnancy.
Quite right, abortion can take place in all three stages of gestation, to say abortion of the fetus is often wrong because the abortion often takes place before that gestational stage of the pregnancy.
Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
So what about all the abortions, miscarriages and stillbirths...will they never have a chance to live because they're not living souls? I don't believe that for a second...God is more just and merciful than that and He will give them a chance at life one day...many women would be heartbroken otherwise...
So what about all the abortions, miscarriages and stillbirths...will they never have a chance to live because they're not living souls? I don't believe that for a second...God is more just and merciful than that and He will give them a chance at life one day...many women would be heartbroken otherwise...
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
It's more accurate to say that nothing is wrong with using "fetus" provided the one saying it or typing it isn't loading it with hatred and ignorance; i.e., are they using "fetus" to mean less than human or have they otherwise demonstrated they understand the fact that they are talking about a human being merely in the fetal stage of their lifespan?
If they clearly don't understand this last bit - and most of you ****ing don't - it's obvious you fully intend it as a slur to convey subhuman status even though it's legitimate as a medical term, albeit one you misunderstand and use incorrectly.
Whereas "ZEF" is always just a slur and will never have one bit of validity; all "ZEF" conveys is that the one typing it is ignorant and replete with hate.
It's more accurate to say that nothing is wrong with using "fetus" provided the one saying it or typing it isn't loading it with hatred and ignorance; i.e., are they using "fetus" to mean less than human or have they otherwise demonstrated they understand the fact that they are talking about a human being merely in the fetal stage of their lifespan?
If they clearly don't understand this last bit - and most of you ****ing don't - it's obvious you fully intend it as a slur to convey subhuman status even though it's legitimate as a medical term, albeit one you misunderstand and use incorrectly.
Whereas "ZEF" is always just a slur and will never have one bit of validity; all "ZEF" conveys is that the one typing it is ignorant and replete with hate.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Yes, God is merciful ,he knows that two thirds of all fertilized human eggs/zygotes either do not implant or self abort within the first week of implantion.
He knows that 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies ( where the woman is aware she is pregnant ) end in misscarige.
I misscarried two little ones myself between my 2ed and 3rd child.
My Christian faith based religion teaches us that ensoulment happens at birth.
We believe that fetuses are just the shells that a soul enters into at birth.
And if one is miscarried or aborted a soul has not been lost.
I had two miscarriages. my second one was a very malformed fetus.
If I had not had those two miscarriages my two youngest might never have been born
because my husband and I had wanted and planned for 4 children.
God sometimes works in very mysterious ways.
Sometimes things are not meant to be.
We have no idea if sometimes abortions are a part of God's plan,
just as miscarriages may sometimes be a part of God's plan.
I had two miscarriages between my 2ed and 3rd child.
The first miscarriage was early on. I was about 5 to 6 weeks gestation.
If I had carried to term the due date would have been in March.
During my 4th pregnancy I went into premature labor when I was about 20 weeks/5 months gestation and miscarried a malformed fetus that had died within my womb.
If it had been a healthy pregnancy and I had carried it to term my due date would have been in November.
A little more than year later I learned I was pregnant again.
I was very worried I might miscarry again.
I had been irregular so the doctor sent me for an ultrasound to monitor how far along I was and if everything looked normal.
I was told my due date was the end of January.
I had some false labor mid January ,went to the hospital and I was sent back home.
I had false labor again the end of January but it stopped so the doctor ordered meds to induce the labor.
The contractions were coming too hard and too fast. They were worried about the stress on the unborn baby so
they stopped it.
My doctor ordered fetal activity tests 2 times a week for the next 4 weeks.
To make a long story shorter our "Miracle" child was born March 2 ed.
Two and half years later our youngest was born in November.
March and November ... God chose the same months my miscarried little ones were due.
Yes, God is merciful ,he knows that two thirds of all fertilized human eggs/zygotes either do not implant or self abort within the first week of implantion.
He knows that 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies ( where the woman is aware she is pregnant ) end in misscarige.
I misscarried two little ones myself between my 2ed and 3rd child.
My Christian faith based religion teaches us that ensoulment happens at birth.
We believe that fetuses are just the shells that a soul enters into at birth.
And if one is miscarried or aborted a soul has not been lost.
I had two miscarriages. my second one was a very malformed fetus.
If I had not had those two miscarriages my two youngest might never have been born
because my husband and I had wanted and planned for 4 children.
God sometimes works in very mysterious ways.
Sometimes things are not meant to be.
We have no idea if sometimes abortions are a part of God's plan,
just as miscarriages may sometimes be a part of God's plan.
I had two miscarriages between my 2ed and 3rd child.
The first miscarriage was early on. I was about 5 to 6 weeks gestation.
If I had carried to term the due date would have been in March.
During my 4th pregnancy I went into premature labor when I was about 20 weeks/5 months gestation and miscarried a malformed fetus that had died within my womb.
If it had been a healthy pregnancy and I had carried it to term my due date would have been in November.
A little more than year later I learned I was pregnant again.
I was very worried I might miscarry again.
I had been irregular so the doctor sent me for an ultrasound to monitor how far along I was and if everything looked normal.
I was told my due date was the end of January.
I had some false labor mid January ,went to the hospital and I was sent back home.
I had false labor again the end of January but it stopped so the doctor ordered meds to induce the labor.
The contractions were coming too hard and too fast. They were worried about the stress on the unborn baby so
they stopped it.
My doctor ordered fetal activity tests 2 times a week for the next 4 weeks.
To make a long story shorter our "Miracle" child was born March 2 ed.
Two and half years later our youngest was born in November.
March and November ... God chose the same months my miscarried little ones were due.
Last edited:
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
If the bible is true and if the christian bible god is the only god and one chooses not to follow it - I've seem many christian people say, "it's up to god to deal with non-believers", not christian believers. Or if you prefer, it's not up to christian believers (who don't know for a fact that their bible or god is true) - to judge other people for not believing as they do - because that should be between a creator of all things and persons who chose not to believe. Why? Because christian believers could be wrong...about everything.
When people really believe that they have the right to serve on behalf of god to be god's judge and jury for people who don't believe as they do...well, look to the Middle East. Think about the European Inquisitions. Think about the Witch/Satanist hunts in American history. The examples go on and on and on.
People should be a living example of their personal beliefs - as long as they don't use them to infringe on the rights of their fellow citizens who have the very same right to be a living example of their personal beliefs.
If the bible is true and if the christian bible god is the only god and one chooses not to follow it - I've seem many christian people say, "it's up to god to deal with non-believers", not christian believers. Or if you prefer, it's not up to christian believers (who don't know for a fact that their bible or god is true) - to judge other people for not believing as they do - because that should be between a creator of all things and persons who chose not to believe. Why? Because christian believers could be wrong...about everything.
When people really believe that they have the right to serve on behalf of god to be god's judge and jury for people who don't believe as they do...well, look to the Middle East. Think about the European Inquisitions. Think about the Witch/Satanist hunts in American history. The examples go on and on and on.
People should be a living example of their personal beliefs - as long as they don't use them to infringe on the rights of their fellow citizens who have the very same right to be a living example of their personal beliefs.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
But then if you shoot and kill a pregnant woman and the "non-human' insider her, you get charged with two counts of murder.
We left logic behind a long time ago
But then if you shoot and kill a pregnant woman and the "non-human' insider her, you get charged with two counts of murder.
We left logic behind a long time ago
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
If they are just protein I guess you could use them for dog food too.
If they are just protein I guess you could use them for dog food too.
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
Not in my country.
But what does that have to do with the acronym 'zef'?
Not in my country.
But what does that have to do with the acronym 'zef'?
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Re: Why do some pro lifers hate it
First of all an unborn is human.
The feticide laws and or the UVVA ( unborn victims of violence act ) reconize abortion is legal.
The law only takes affect if an unborn was killed during a crime against the pregnant woman.
When an unborn is killed during an attack on the woman feticide laws or the UVVA may be used against the attacker.
It is important to understand that the UVVA or state feticide laws and Roe vs Wade are not conflicting laws.
Roe v Wade is a SC decision that held that state abortion laws violate the Due process clause in the fourteenth amendment,
which protects individuals against state action that infringes on their privacy.
The UVVA and state feticide laws passed under Roe vs Wade because those laws explicitly identified "abortion' is an activity that can't be prosecuted when the abortion is obtained with the consent of the pregnant woman or individual authorized to act on her behalf.
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All state feticide laws have a clause specifing that nothing in the act shall make it a crime to perform or obtain an abortion that is otherwise legal.
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First of all an unborn is human.
The feticide laws and or the UVVA ( unborn victims of violence act ) reconize abortion is legal.
The law only takes affect if an unborn was killed during a crime against the pregnant woman.
When an unborn is killed during an attack on the woman feticide laws or the UVVA may be used against the attacker.
It is important to understand that the UVVA or state feticide laws and Roe vs Wade are not conflicting laws.
Roe v Wade is a SC decision that held that state abortion laws violate the Due process clause in the fourteenth amendment,
which protects individuals against state action that infringes on their privacy.
The UVVA and state feticide laws passed under Roe vs Wade because those laws explicitly identified "abortion' is an activity that can't be prosecuted when the abortion is obtained with the consent of the pregnant woman or individual authorized to act on her behalf.
~~~~
All state feticide laws have a clause specifing that nothing in the act shall make it a crime to perform or obtain an abortion that is otherwise legal.
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