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Is Abortion a Moral Right?

DashingAmerican said:
So human life and plant life are interchangeable?
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A fetus in the first trimester is no more sentient than a potato or weed. Neither is one in its second and third trimester, but I'm probably a bit more of a softie when it comes to killing that. I rather we don't.
 
DashingAmerican said:
And is a fetus a life? Do you believe in God?
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Yes, I believe in God.
The church I belong to is a member of the Religious Coalition of Reproduce Choice.

While I value the life of the unborn , I value religious liberty more.
I value our First Admendment more.

Access to birth control and legal elective abortion ( within the parameters of Roe vs Wade ) are a part of our religious liberty in the US.

When it comes to matters of reproduce health,

Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.

From the RCRC ( Religious Coalition of Reproductive Choice )

Good policy is policy that allows for all people – regardless of their religious identity – to follow their own faith and conscience when directing the course of their life. When it comes to matters of reproductive health, RCRC believes that real religious liberty protects the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family, and her own faith. Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.
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Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
 
calamity said:
A fetus in the first trimester is no more sentient than a potato or weed. Neither is one in its second and third trimester, but I'm probably a bit more of a softie when it comes to killing that. I rather we don't.
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But a weed will always be a weed and a potato a potato.
 
_Sal said:
there is no mistake to be made, you do not have the right to force her to carry that fetus to term, in fact the reality of it is, you would never know she is pregnant would you, so there is no way to prevent abortion there is only forcing it to be unsafe thereby endangering the woman's life

there's your morality
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Your are absolutely correct as laws stand today that no one has the right to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to full term. And by the number of abortions performed yearly, she (woman] has no problem with ending the life of a fetus if it is inconvenient for her. I think that speaks to the soul of the American woman.

But that doesn't stop the rest of us speaking for those who do not have a voice in our legal system.

Sal, I have a couple of friends in the 70's who got abortions. It was a time when they were told the fetus was just a blob of cells. Later they discovered with technology and science that wasn't true. It has haunted them since. They can't forgive themselves. It has overwhelmed their lives with guilt to the point of great destruction.

Ironically back then, only 10% of births were out of wedlock. Since abortion became the law of the land, out of wedlock births has escalated in blacks by over 70 %. By Hispanics by 45%. and by whites by 35%.

What is wrong with this picture?
 
minnie616 said:
Yes, I believe in God.
The church I belong to is a member of the Religious Coalition of Reproduce Choice.

While I value the life of the unborn , I value religious liberty more.
I value our First Admendment more.

Access to birth control and legal elective abortion ( within the parameters of Roe vs Wade ) are a part of our religious liberty in the US.

When it comes to matters of reproduce health,

Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.

From the RCRC ( Religious Coalition of Reproductive Choice )



Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
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I completely agree with the bolded font. No matter what I believe, I should not have the power to dictate what you believe, no matter how contradictory it is to my belief.
 
calamity said:
And a dead fetus, a dead fetus. Your point?
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My point is that a potato and a weed, left to their own fruition, will always be a potato and a weed.

A fetus, left to it's own fruition, will become more.
 
DashingAmerican said:
If we could remove a fetus and transplant it into an artificial womb, would you support abortion?
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Depends. Who takes care of and pays for the fetus? If my money goes to that then no, I do not support artificial wombs.

There are too many people on the planet already.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Depends. Who takes care of and pays for the fetus? If my money goes to that then no, I do not support artificial wombs.

There are too many people on the planet already.
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There are too many people, why don't we just kill off the older generation, your money is going to them.
 
DashingAmerican said:
There are too many people, why don't we just kill off the older generation, your money is going to them.
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They are "people" and we don't kill people without just cause. A fetus is not a person. It is much MUCH less...
 
vesper said:
Your are absolutely correct as laws stand today that no one has the right to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to full term. And by the number of abortions performed yearly, she (woman] has no problem with ending the life of a fetus if it is inconvenient for her. I think that speaks to the soul of the American woman.

But that doesn't stop the rest of us speaking for those who do not have a voice in our legal system.

Sal, I have a couple of friends in the 70's who got abortions. It was a time when they were told the fetus was just a blob of cells. Later they discovered with technology and science that wasn't true. It has haunted them since. They can't forgive themselves. It has overwhelmed their lives with guilt to the point of great destruction.

Ironically back then, only 10% of births were out of wedlock. Since abortion became the law of the land, out of wedlock births has escalated in blacks by over 70 %. By Hispanics by 45%. and by whites by 35%.

What is wrong with this picture?
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Your stats are wrong , that is what is wrong with the picture.

People hid unwed mothers before the 1970s.
Grandmothers often raised their grandchild as their own and the babies/child's older sister was actually the mother.

Or they sent pregnant daughters away to have the baby and give it up for adoption so it not recorded as a birth out of wedlock.
 
minnie616 said:
Yes, I believe in God.
The church I belong to is a member of the Religious Coalition of Reproduce Choice.

While I value the life of the unborn , I value religious liberty more.
I value our First Admendment more.

Access to birth control and legal elective abortion ( within the parameters of Roe vs Wade ) are a part of our religious liberty in the US.

When it comes to matters of reproduce health,

Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.

From the RCRC ( Religious Coalition of Reproductive Choice )



ReligioLus Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
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I hear there are churches these days that will pass a joint among brothers and sisters to "feel" the presence of the LORD.

The "Church" in many instances has become a whore. You paste "yes I believe in Jesus" on anything these days regardless makes you bonified. It is a sad state of affairs and we are seeing the results play out daily in our society.
 
Bodhisattva said:
They are "people" and we don't kill people without just cause. A fetus is not a person. It is much MUCH less...
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But it has the potential to be more, what is left that the older generation can do? Many would say they've already made a mess of this planet.
 
DashingAmerican said:
If we could remove a fetus and transplant it into an artificial womb, would you support abortion?
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You can't just transplant an implanted fetus from the woman' s womb to an artifical womb even we had a working artifical womb.
 
minnie616 said:
You can't just transplant an implanted fetus from the woman' s womb to an artifical womb even we had a working artifical womb.
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It was a hypothetical and we've actually done it with sharks; not the same species, I'm aware, but still relevant.
 
vesper said:
I hear there are churches these days that will pass a joint among brothers and sisters to "feel" the presence of the LORD.

The "Church" in many instances has become a whore. You paste "yes I believe in Jesus" on anything these days regardless makes you bonified. It is a sad state of affairs and we are seeing the results play out daily in our society.
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I am talking about Mainline Protestant Christian churches. As well as Jewish organizations.

Member organizations:

Rabbinical Assembly
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women's League for Conservative Judaism
The Episcopal Church
American Ethical Union National Service Conference
Society for Humanistic Judaism
Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO) of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
Jewish Reconstructionist Federation
Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Central Conference of American Rabbis
North American Federation of Temple Youth
Women of Reform Judaism, The Federation of Temple Sisterhoods
Women's Rabbinic Network of Central Conference of American Rabbis
The United Church of Christ
Unitarian Universalist Association
Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation website
Young Religious Unitarian Universalists
Continental Unitarian Universalist Young Adult Network
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
Anti-Defamation League
Catholics for Choice
Christian Lesbians Out (CLOUT)
Church of the Brethren Women's Caucus
Disciples for Choice
Episcopal Urban Caucus
Episcopal Women's Caucus
Hadassah, WZOA
Jewish Women International
Lutheran Women's Caucus
Methodist Federation for Social Action
NA'AMAT USA
National Council of Jewish Women
Women's American ORT
YWCA of the USA
 
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minnie616 said:
I am talking about Mainline Protestant Christian churches. As well as Jewish organizations.
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That's because only about 1 in 5 church attenders actually read the bible and a decreasing amount of pastors actually believe it is the word of God.
 
minnie616 said:
Your stats are wrong , that is what is wrong with the picture.

People hid unwed mothers before the 1970s.
Grandmothers often raised their grandchild as their own and the babies/child's older sister was actually the mother.

Or they sent pregnant daughters away to have the baby and give it up for adoption so it not recorded as a birth out of wedlock.
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LOL not surprised you of all people would have a problem with my "stats". That's alright cause I know they are correct.

Stand guard at your station defending all abortions .

Those little lifes that were snuffed out because a mother didn't want them. Carry on while you speak of your church believing in God and promotes abortion. Marvelous.

S0metimes I ponder on the fact I reproduced two beautiful children who reproduced 6 beautiful grandchildren and left them this sh*t hole to deal with.

Society has become a sh*thole thanks to folks who have no morals
 
DashingAmerican said:
That's because only about 1 in 5 church attenders actually read the bible and a decreasing amount of pastors actually believe it is the word of God.
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We value the life of the fetus but the woman is a soul and the Bible teaches us that ensoulment happens with the breath of life at birth.



The Breath of Life

In the Bible when God created Adam God :
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).

Also, these verses in Genesis (6:17; 7:15, 22) refer to the “breath of life,”

And in Job “The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life” (Job 33:4).


More Bible verses:

By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.
Psalms 33:6



9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army...

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

Ezekiel 37 9-10, 13-14
 
DashingAmerican said:
That's because only about 1 in 5 church attenders actually read the bible and a decreasing amount of pastors actually believe it is the word of God.
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Scientifically an unborn is alive, but spiritually according to the Bible life begins with live birth.
The passages I quoted from the Bible teaches us that spiritually life begins with the breath of life.
It is when God breaths spiritual life into a babies body. Thats why it is referred to as the breath of life.


Genesis 2
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.

Living soul.

The breath of life makes us living souls.

We receive the living soul at birth.

This Wiki link helps explain about a living soul.

Nephesh (נֶ֫פֶשׁ‎ nép̄eš) is a Biblical Hebrew word which occurs in the Hebrew Bible. The word refers to the aspects of sentience, and human beings and other animals are both described as having nephesh.[1][2] Plants, as an example of live organisms, are not referred in the Bible as having nephesh. The term נפש‎ is literally 'soul', although it is commonly rendered as "life" in English translations.[3] A view is that nephesh relates to 'sentient being' without the idea of life and that, rather than having a nephesh, a sentient creation of God is a nephesh. In Genesis 2:7 the text is that Adam was not given a nephesh but "became a living nephesh." Nephesh then is better understood as 'person', seeing that Leviticus 21:11 and Numbers 6:6 speak of a 'dead body', which in Hebrew is a nép̄eš mêṯ, a dead nephesh. [4] Nephesh when put with another word can detail aspects related to the concept of nephesh; with רוּחַ‎ rûach "spirit" it describes a part of mankind that is immaterial, like one's mind, emotions, will, intellect, personality and conscience, as in Job 7:11. [5][6]
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephesh
 
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