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New PP video from Center for Medical Progress

Mac77 said:
Because life begins at conception and we are entitled to as much life as God and Nature give us.
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Sperm and Ovum are living cells.

Entitled to as much life according to whom?

There's no such thing as right to life.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
One is bad enough.
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I'm not trying to be an ass. But I'm really curious why you said, "One is bad enough."

There are so many forms of death at all stages of born persons experience that can significantly impact family, friends, school mates or co-workers.

And on rare occasions there are individuals whose death impacts the world in a significantly positive way. (for example: Einstein).

At the stage the vast majority of abortions are performed only the woman who hosts its presence is aware that the embryo or early stage fetus exists "unless" the woman chooses to share that information with others. Even then rarely would other people feel an emotional bond with those very early stages of development.
 
Mac77 said:
Because life begins at conception and we are entitled to as much life as God and Nature give us.
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How far does this entitlement go?

If a woman is told she needs to be on bedrest to prevent miscarriage ...is that included in the entitlement?

If a woman is told that she needs to stop working because she is pre-eclamptic ....is she required to stop work?

If a woman lacks adequate insurance and can barely make ends meet, is she required to seek health care for her pregnancy?

Is a woman required to adjust her eating and drinking and medications she takes because she could be endangering this entitled life?

Can you define what you believe the law SHOULD require of a woman for this entitled life.
 
Mac77 said:
Because life begins at conception and we are entitled to as much life as God and Nature give us.
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God is a personal belief system. Your godly entitlement is between you and your God. Please do not demand or expect others to comply with your belief system.
 
Its ironic that one of the unborn baby butchers laughingly agrees they should by golly embrace all the vile descriptions of who they are and what they are doing...and yet they rush to judges to try to hide the declarations of the vile things they are doing.
 
year2late said:
God is a personal belief system. Your godly entitlement is between you and your God. Please do not demand or expect others to comply with your belief system.
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Well, we DO demand and expect it. This country was founded primarily by English Protestants. Christian teachings about morality are the ultimate basis for our criminal laws, and nothing about that fact makes those laws unconstitutional. Anyone who happens to find that unpalatable is free to move to some other country more to his liking.
 
minnie616 said:
I call BS.

Over 65 percent of US women of child bearing years use artifical birth control consistently.

That's not including the women who cannot become pregnant due to a medical condition or a medical procedure.

No artifical birth control is 100 percent effective.
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It certainly can't be 100% effective if only 65% of the people involved are using it consistently.
 
year2late said:
God is a personal belief system.

Your godly entitlement is between you and your God. Please do not demand or expect others to comply with your belief system.
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In that case choose the option of Nature which I gave you

Either way innocent human life deserves protection
 
Mac77 said:
In that case choose the option of Nature which I gave you

Either way innocent human life deserves protection
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#1) Nature doesn't give one stinking fig about innocent life, human or otherwise
#2) God also never cared about innocent life, human or otherwise
 
Dragonfly said:
#1) Nature doesn't give one stinking fig about innocent life, human or otherwise
#2) God also never cared about innocent life, human or otherwise
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Its not God or Nature that chooses to end the life of a store clerk during a robbery - or the life of an unborn human during an abortion

Some selfish person does that
 
Mac77 said:
Its not God or Nature that chooses to end the life of a store clerk during a robbery - or the life of an unborn human during an abortion

Some selfish person does that
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Nothing that you said, changes anything that I said.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
I was referring to repeat abortions, no excuse for it.
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One of the particpants in this thread (ie minnie) has had more than one abortion. Maybe you should ask her about it, that is, if you do not mind seeing your idiotic babbling squashed the way all of the pro-life BS should be
 
sangha said:
One of the particpants in this thread (ie minnie) has had more than one abortion. Maybe you should ask her about it, that is, if you do not mind seeing your idiotic babbling squashed the way all of the pro-life BS should be
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Ummm...what? No, she never said that.
 
matchlight said:
It certainly can't be 100% effective if only 65% of the people involved are using it consistently.
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The failure rate is calculated for the number of pregnancies out of 100 couples when using birth control consistently.

For example there is a 3 to 5 percent failure rate for couples using condoms consistently.

That means each year there will be 3 to 5 women out of 100 who become pregnant even while using condoms consistently.
 
Mac77 said:
In that case choose the option of Nature which I gave you

Either way innocent human life deserves protection
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Not happening.

God or Nature depending on your believe system miscarres two third of zygotes within the first 10 days or so of fertilization.
Most fail to implant or self abort within the first week of implantation.

Another 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies spontaneously abort ( miscarry ) within 5 months gestation .
About 90 percent of those miscarriages happen in the first trimester.
 
sangha said:
One of the particpants in this thread (ie minnie) has had more than one abortion. Maybe you should ask her about it, that is, if you do not mind seeing your idiotic babbling squashed the way all of the pro-life BS should be
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Minnie has never aborted. Not sure who it is you are talking about, but it isn't Minnie.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Agreed on the 2 way street, this is why child support is so. I was referring to repeat abortions, no excuse for it. At some point, wise up!
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sangha said:
One of the particpants in this thread (ie minnie) has had more than one abortion. Maybe you should ask her about it, that is, if you do not mind seeing your idiotic babbling squashed the way all of the pro-life BS should be
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I had two spontaneous abortions ( miscarriages ) between my second and third child.

The first miscarriage I was about 6 weeks gestation and my second miscarriage I was about 20 weeks gestion.
I went into what I thought was premature labor so we went to the ER hoping we stop the contractions and I could have a healthy baby.

When I was given a pregnancy test in the ER my husband and I were told our little one had died in the womb.

When I was taken to my room for the night and I was transferring to my bed our little one was expelled and I accidentally saw how malformed it was.

My doctor told me pathology said it never would have survived even if I had carried it longer. It was so malformed they could not even tell if it was a boy or a girl.

BTW:

After those two miscarriages.

My husband and I two more children.

Our 4 children are now grown and have have homes of their own.

Three of them are married and have children of their own.
 
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Scrabaholic said:
Minnie has never aborted. Not sure who it is you are talking about, but it isn't Minnie.
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I think he was referring to spontaneous abortions which are also known as miscarriages.

You are correct that I never had a elective abortion.
 
matchlight said:
Well, we DO demand and expect it. This country was founded primarily by English Protestants. Christian teachings about morality are the ultimate basis for our criminal laws, and nothing about that fact makes those laws unconstitutional. Anyone who happens to find that unpalatable is free to move to some other country more to his liking.
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Well.....sorry to let you down on that one. You have no right to demand anybody follows your religion. At least in this country. Perhaps you are speaking about a religious extremist regime you admire?
 
year2late said:
How far does this entitlement go?

If a woman is told she needs to be on bedrest to prevent miscarriage ...is that included in the entitlement?

If a woman is told that she needs to stop working because she is pre-eclamptic ....is she required to stop work?

If a woman lacks adequate insurance and can barely make ends meet, is she required to seek health care for her pregnancy?

Is a woman required to adjust her eating and drinking and medications she takes because she could be endangering this entitled life?

Can you define what you believe the law SHOULD require of a woman for this entitled life.
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Mac77 said:
In that case choose the option of Nature which I gave you

Either way innocent human life deserves protection
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Well, how far do you take this entitlement?
 
matchlight said:
Well, we DO demand and expect it. This country was founded primarily by English Protestants. Christian teachings about morality are the ultimate basis for our criminal laws, and nothing about that fact makes those laws unconstitutional. Anyone who happens to find that unpalatable is free to move to some other country more to his liking.
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There's several Middle East nations established eons before the US, which their primary religious tenets are based on Islam/Muslin religion. The difference is that the US has isn't a Theocracy. Our Constitution has an Amendment which allows all persons Freedom of Religion. This means that the god of your religion has no more importance than the god of a religion not related to your religion.

When people decide that their god is the only god and all who doesn't subscribe to that god are committing some sin against all others as well as our nation as a whole, including government...that is a serious threat to the American way of life.

I am not legally or morally obligated to be loyal to the tenets/teachings of "your" religion...nor anyone else's.

I will become violent should Government give any religion special privileges over other religions or any religious organization attempt to force their beliefs on me.

Anyone who finds it difficult to accept the reality of how our nation works with regard to each person's right to practice their religious as they wish AS LONG AS THEY DON'T infringe on the rights of of their fellow citizens - might consider moving to a nation that is more theocratic.
 
minnie616 said:
The failure rate is calculated for the number of pregnancies out of 100 couples when using birth control consistently.

For example there is a 3 to 5 percent failure rate for couples using condoms consistently.

That means each year there will be 3 to 5 women out of 100 who become pregnant even while using condoms consistently.
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I don't see how that statistic means anything without taking into account how often the couples have intercourse. Obviously that varies a great deal--so much that a simple average would not tell anyone very much about a particular couple.

If four out of one hundred women, each of whom had the time, desire, and energy to have intercourse a thousand times a year, got pregnant during a certain year, that would be only four pregnancies in one hundred thousand acts of intercourse. In that case, the means of contraception they used would be considered very effective. But take the other extreme. If there were four pregnancies in one year among a group of one hundred women who were practically abstinent, each of them having intercourse only once during the year, those four would have resulted from only one hundred total acts of intercourse. In that case, not many people would consider whatever means of contraception they had used very good.
 
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Removable Mind said:
There's several Middle East nations established eons before the US, which their primary religious tenets are based on Islam/Muslin religion. The difference is that the US has isn't a Theocracy. Our Constitution has an Amendment which allows all persons Freedom of Religion. This means that the god of your religion has no more importance than the god of a religion not related to your religion.
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As applied to laws in this country, it means no such thing. Our laws are based on the moral teachings of Christianity, and not those of Islam, Zoroastrianism, or Thuggee.

When people decide that their god is the only god and all who doesn't subscribe to that god are committing some sin against all others as well as our nation as a whole, including government...that is a serious threat to the American way of life.
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Yes--I've lost count of the sleepless nights I've spent, worrying about the serious threat to the American way of life posed by the fact that the murder laws of all fifty states give effect to one of the Ten Commandments. Just imagine!

I am not legally or morally obligated to be loyal to the tenets/teachings of "your" religion...nor anyone else's.
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Of course you are, to the extent those religious tenets are reflected in criminal laws. If some savage comes here from a godforsaken land and brings with him the belief that it's fine to rape any unaccompanied woman whose clothing reveals a lot of skin, that savage nevertheless is obligated to abide by the rape laws of whatever state he is taking up space in. The U.S. having developed as a primarily Christian nation, and having derived its laws from those of England, another primarily Christian nation, the laws the alien savage in my example must abide by inevitably reflect Christian morality. Same for our laws against burglary, adultery, prostitution, robbery, polygamy, arson, and so on.
 
year2late said:
Well.....sorry to let you down on that one. You have no right to demand anybody follows your religion. At least in this country. Perhaps you are speaking about a religious extremist regime you admire?
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I and everyone else in my state have the right to demand that everyone follow the state's criminal laws. If someone doesn't like the fact those laws typically reflect the religious morality of the Christians who have traditionally been an overwhelming majority in this country, as they had been in England, whose laws ours derive from, his feelings about the matter will not help him if he is charged with a crime.
 
matchlight said:
As applied to laws in this country, it means no such thing. Our laws are based on the moral teachings of Christianity, and not those of Islam, Zoroastrianism, or Thuggee.



Yes--I've lost count of the sleepless nights I've spent, worrying about the serious threat to the American way of life posed by the fact that the murder laws of all fifty states give effect to one of the Ten Commandments. Just imagine!



Of course you are, to the extent those religious tenets are reflected in criminal laws. If some savage comes here from a godforsaken land and brings with him the belief that it's fine to rape any unaccompanied woman whose clothing reveals a lot of skin, that savage nevertheless is obligated to abide by the rape laws of whatever state he is taking up space in. The U.S. having developed as a primarily Christian nation, and having derived its laws from those of England, another primarily Christian nation, the laws the alien savage in my example must abide by inevitably reflect Christian morality. Same for our laws against burglary, adultery, prostitution, robbery, polygamy, arson, and so on.
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Uh huh... Then you obviously believe your god can beat up every body else's god. :roll:

I don't care if Christianity was the primary religion when our nation became as nation "ruled by law", not Jesus.

I refuse to be coerced into accepting any religion. I have that right...as much as any Christian has the right to practice their religion.

HOWEVER...

People who subscribe to ANY RELIGION does so on a voluntary basis. No person is imprisoned or forced to pay a fine for failing to live their lives according to their religion's tenets or teachings.

So if you choose to be a living example of your faith...fire away...as long as you don't use your religion to infringe on the rights of your fellow citizens who have the same right to be a living example of their faith.
 
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