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New PP video from Center for Medical Progress

sangha said:
One of the particpants in this thread (ie minnie) has had more than one abortion. Maybe you should ask her about it, that is, if you do not mind seeing your idiotic babbling squashed the way all of the pro-life BS should be
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Sure, just have abortions like ordering lunch, no biggie !
 
matchlight said:
I don't see how that statistic means anything without taking into account how often the couples have intercourse. Obviously that varies a great deal--so much that a simple average would not tell anyone very much about a particular couple.

If four out of one hundred women, each of whom had the time, desire, and energy to have intercourse a thousand times a year, got pregnant during a certain year, that would be only four pregnancies in one hundred thousand acts of intercourse. In that case, the means of contraception they used would be considered very effective. But take the other extreme. If there were four pregnancies in one year among a group of one hundred women who were practically abstinent, each of them having intercourse only once during the year, those four would have resulted from only one hundred total acts of intercourse. In that case, not many people would consider whatever means of contraception they had used very good.
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The rate of pregnancy is 5 percent for a one time non protected sexual intercourse between 2 fertile people.

Which means any encounter, be it the first time or the 500th time.

The rate is still 5 percent.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Sure, just have abortions like ordering lunch, no biggie !
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My sponanoeous abortions were miscarriages. They were very much wanted pregnancies and were not electively aborted.

15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies ( where the woman knows she is pregnant ) end in miscarriage.
 
matchlight said:
Well, we DO demand and expect it. This country was founded primarily by English Protestants. Christian teachings about morality are the ultimate basis for our criminal laws, and nothing about that fact makes those laws unconstitutional. Anyone who happens to find that unpalatable is free to move to some other country more to his liking.
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Abortion before quickening was lawful during the colonial years.

In fact most Protestants religions joined with the Jewish religion to keep abortion legal when Roe vs Wade first was passed.

From Wiki:
Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice

The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC) was founded in 1973[1] by clergy and lay leaders from mainline denominations and faith traditions to create an interfaith organization following the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the U.S.[2]

...

President and CEO: The Reverend Harry F. Knox
Chair of the Board: The Reverend Dr. Alethea Smith-Withers, Pastor of the Pavilion of God (Baptist), Washington, DC
...


Members of RCRC:


Rabbinical Assembly
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women's League for Conservative Judaism
The Episcopal Church
American Ethical Union National Service Conference
Society for Humanistic Judaism
Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO) of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
Jewish Reconstructionist Federation
Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Central Conference of American Rabbis
North American Federation of Temple Youth
Women of Reform Judaism, The Federation of Temple Sisterhoods
Women's Rabbinic Network of Central Conference of American Rabbis
The United Church of Christ
Unitarian Universalist Association
Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation website
Young Religious Unitarian Universalists
Continental Unitarian Universalist Young Adult Network
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
Anti-Defamation League
Catholics for Choice
Christian Lesbians Out (CLOUT)
Church of the Brethren Women's Caucus
Disciples for Choice
Episcopal Urban Caucus
Episcopal Women's Caucus
Hadassah, WZOA
Jewish Women International
Lutheran Women's Caucus
Methodist Federation for Social Action
NA'AMAT USA
National Council of Jewish Women
Women's American ORT
YWCA of the USA
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Slingshot Bob said:
Sure, just have abortions like ordering lunch, no biggie !
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Yes, you got it. No biggie. Well, as long as a woman chooses to have abortion within the parameters of the law. "No questions asked." That's exactly how it should be. Women don't have a legal or moral obligation to proliferate the species. Should men have an obligation to proliferate the species?

You seem to take abortion a lot more serious than you've been letting on.

Do you hold the same sense of concern over the near 10 million children, around the world, who die each year, "under the age of five years old", from "preventable deaths"?
 
Removable Mind said:
I refuse to be coerced into accepting any religion. I have that right...as much as any Christian has the right to practice their religion.
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Of course. Do you really imagine I don't know that the Free Exercise Clause guarantees the right of atheists, Satanists, and members of all sorts of goofball cults, within the limits of generally applicable criminal laws, to practice whatever the hell they consider their religion?

To the extent our criminal laws reflect Christian tenets, though--and they certainly do--those people have to adapt their actions to those tenets just like everyone else. I understand that radical individualism is a sort of quasi-religion of leftists, but each sulky member of each little grievance group does not get to make the rest of us cater to him. Our laws are made by majority vote, and anyone who doesn't like the Christian values those laws often reflect can either try to change the laws, learn to live with them, or move someplace else.
 
Removable Mind said:
Yes, you got it. No biggie. Well, as long as a woman chooses to have abortion within the parameters of the law. "No questions asked." That's exactly how it should be. Women don't have a legal or moral obligation to proliferate the species. Should men have an obligation to proliferate the species?

You seem to take abortion a lot more serious than you've been letting on.

Do you hold the same sense of concern over the near 10 million children, around the world, who die each year, "under the age of five years old", from "preventable deaths"?
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A comdom, how inconviniant , just get an abortion!
 
minnie616 said:
The rate of pregnancy is 5 percent for a one time non protected sexual intercourse between 2 fertile people.

Which means any encounter, be it the first time or the 500th time.

The rate is still 5 percent.
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Can you support that figure with any medical authority? I find it hard to believe that on average, down through the ages, women have had to copulate with men at least twenty different times to get pregnant.

Also, you seemed to be saying earlier that the same rate you are now claiming applies to unprotected sex applied when a condom was used.
 
matchlight said:
Of course. Do you really imagine I don't know that the Free Exercise Clause guarantees the right of atheists, Satanists, and members of all sorts of goofball cults, within the limits of generally applicable criminal laws, to practice whatever the hell they consider their religion?

To the extent our criminal laws reflect Christian tenets, though--and they certainly do--those people have to adapt their actions to those tenets just like everyone else. I understand that radical individualism is a sort of quasi-religion of leftists, but each sulky member of each little grievance group does not get to make the rest of us cater to him. Our laws are made by majority vote, and anyone who doesn't like the Christian values those laws often reflect can either try to change the laws, learn to live with them, or move someplace else.
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As I posted earlier in this thread:


I value our First Admendment , I value religious liberty.

Access to birth control and legal elective abortion ( within the parameters of Roe vs Wade ) are a part of our religious liberty in the US.


When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.

From the RCRC ( Religious Coalition of Reproductive Choice )
Good policy is policy that allows for all people – regardless of their religious identity – to follow their own faith and conscience when directing the course of their life. When it comes to matters of reproductive health, RCRC believes that real religious liberty protects the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family, and her own faith. Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.
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Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
 
matchlight said:
Can you support that figure with any medical authority? I find it hard to believe that on average, down through the ages, women have had to copulate with men at least twenty different times to get pregnant.

Also, you seemed to be saying earlier that the same rate you are now claiming applies to unprotected sex applied when a condom was used.
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I stated the failure of condoms was 3 to 5 percent. Condoms slip, they break, they are often applied incorrectly.

They are better to protect against STDs than protecting against pregnancy.
 
matchlight said:
Of course. Do you really imagine I don't know that the Free Exercise Clause guarantees the right of atheists, Satanists, and members of all sorts of goofball cults, within the limits of generally applicable criminal laws, to practice whatever the hell they consider their religion?

To the extent our criminal laws reflect Christian tenets, though--and they certainly do--those people have to adapt their actions to those tenets just like everyone else. I understand that radical individualism is a sort of quasi-religion of leftists, but each sulky member of each little grievance group does not get to make the rest of us cater to him. Our laws are made by majority vote, and anyone who doesn't like the Christian values those laws often reflect can either try to change the laws, learn to live with them, or move someplace else.
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Yea for the Free Exercise Clause.

Our world has changed dramatically since our Framers and those who came to America to get away from all of the religious oppression in Europe. But one thing didn't change. The Framers never forgot the religious oppression. Thus the First Amendment...that applies to EVERYONE regardless of their CHOICE of religion.

"CHOICE" is the operative word in so many respects.
 
matchlight said:
I and everyone else in my state have the right to demand that everyone follow the state's criminal laws. If someone doesn't like the fact those laws typically reflect the religious morality of the Christians who have traditionally been an overwhelming majority in this country, as they had been in England, whose laws ours derive from, his feelings about the matter will not help him if he is charged with a crime.
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You can demand what you want,. To expect laws in this country to make citizens of THIS country to follow your religion is emphatically NOT what this country stands for. Sounds more like what religious extremist countries require of their citizens.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
A comdom, how inconviniant , just get an abortion!
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Okay, Bob, since you're not really responding to the comments in my previous post, tell us how you really feel. What's bugging you about women's right to not want to be pregnant.

Get it all out there for us to understand what your beliefs are...but just as important...why.
 
Removable Mind said:
Okay, Bob, since you're not really responding to the comments in my previous post, tell us how you really feel. What's bugging you about women's right to not want to be pregnant.

Get it all out there for us to understand what your beliefs are...but just as important...why.
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I already did, children are not used TP to casually discard.
 
matchlight said:
Can you support that figure with any medical authority? I find it hard to believe that on average, down through the ages, women have had to copulate with men at least twenty different times to get pregnant.

Also, you seemed to be saying earlier that the same rate you are now claiming applies to unprotected sex applied when a condom was used.
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I found my link to the 5 percent one time unprotected sex:

The pregnancy rate according to medical reports for one time unprotected sex is 5%.

In 2004 – 2005, 64,080 women were raped.
According to medical reports, the incidence of pregnancy for one-time unprotected sexual intercourse is 5%.

By applying the pregnancy rate to 64,080 women, RAINN estimates that there were 3,204 pregnancies as a result of rape during that period.
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Facts and Statistics | centralmnsac

https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/
 
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year2late said:
You can demand what you want,. To expect laws in this country to make citizens of THIS country to follow your religion is emphatically NOT what this country stands for. Sounds more like what religious extremist countries require of their citizens.
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You quoted my post, and yet your response was not relevant to what I wrote.
 
Removable Mind said:
Yea for the Free Exercise Clause.

Our world has changed dramatically since our Framers and those who came to America to get away from all of the religious oppression in Europe. But one thing didn't change. The Framers never forgot the religious oppression. Thus the First Amendment...that applies to EVERYONE regardless of their CHOICE of religion.

"CHOICE" is the operative word in so many respects.
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Not really. Harry Blackmun's bizarre concoction in Roe v. Wade notwithstanding, abortion does not raise any constitutional issue and never has. States where majorities believe abortion is wrong should be free to restrict or even ban it, just as states where majorities believe abortion is not wrong should be free to allow abortion on demand, if they see fit.

After President Trump has appointed a second originalist justice to the Supreme Court, it would not surprise me to see the 'Court pull the trigger, rather than flinching as it did in 1992, and finally overrule what remains of Roe. If it did, I would expect most states to allow abortions with a few restrictions, or even none at all. And no one living in any state which saw fit to ban abortion would be far from one where it was readily available.
 
matchlight said:
Well, we DO demand and expect it. This country was founded primarily by English Protestants. Christian teachings about morality are the ultimate basis for our criminal laws, and nothing about that fact makes those laws unconstitutional. Anyone who happens to find that unpalatable is free to move to some other country more to his liking.
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I find it really interesting that there were letters written between the Danbury Baptists and Thomas Jefferson because the Baptists were concerned about the separation of church and state. Those letters led to the Bill of Rights.

Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty‐‐that religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals‐‐that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions‐‐that the legitimate power of civil...
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Letters between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists - Bill of Rights Institute



It is also interesting that one of the Baptists tenets is soul competency.

Soul competency is a very important religious tenet that is held by many main line Christian religions.

Many Christian faiths and other religious groups hold beliefs that reproductive choice including access to legal abortion is a part of our religious tenet.

We believe that "Each person and each community of believers has the right to follow the dictates of their conscience, without compulsion from authoritative structures. "
 
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matchlight said:
You quoted my post, and yet your response was not relevant to what I wrote.
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Sure it does. You spoke to the demands you want to place on others.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
I already did, children are not used TP to casually discard.
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What children? The near 10 million born children under the age of 5 who die each year from preventable causes?

You are still evading my previous questions. What's the foundation of your beliefs regarding abortion. Are they derived from your religious beliefs or ????
 
Removable Mind said:
What children? The near 10 million born children under the age of 5 who die each year from preventable causes?

You are still evading my previous questions. What's the foundation of your beliefs regarding abortion. Are they derived from your religious beliefs or ????
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My personal opinion.
 
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