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Opening a Letter to Neil Gorsuch [W:127]

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Some weeks ago I mailed a printed-out letter on paper via the Postal Service to the newest Supreme Court Justice, Neil M. Gorsuch. It was sent anonymously, and a few months previously I had also sent (anonymously) somewhat similar (but longer) letters to the other Justices. Perhaps their content might influence a Decision or two in the future (but of course there is only one way to find out!). I've decided to "open" the Gorsuch letter to the public, by posting it here. As printed, it fit on both sides of a single sheet of paper. Here, it needs to be split across 2 separate posts.

[post 1 of 2]

The Honorable Neil M. Gorsuch, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States
1 First Street, NE
Washington, DC 20543

Hello.
This letter contains various facts combined with amateur legal reasoning, the latter of which your expert legal mind might find "laughable" --and thus entertaining. Hope you like it!

First we note that some things are mediocre while other things have greatness. It is possible that the greatest-of-all thing about the US Constitution (plus Amendments) is the fact that the word "person" is used throughout, and the word "human" is not used even once. In the era of the Founding Fathers the word "person" might have only been a legal construct, but today scientists have been studying the topic, starting with a very simple Question: "What characteristics does a person possess, that a mere-animal entity does not possess?" As a result, some scientists have become convinced that members of various species of dolphins (including killer whales) can qualify as persons, just as it is widely accepted that extraterrestrial alien intelligent beings can qualify as persons, plus computer scientists widely expect that True Artificial Intelligences can someday exist --all three possibilities completely proving that the concepts of "person" and "human" are totally distinct and unrelated concepts.

Basically, the Constitution promotes "person rights", a thing that can reduce inter-species prejudice (and possibly the chances of interstellar war) for millennia into the future. Note that in the era of the Founding Fathers, it was widely believed that angels (very powerful person-class beings) literally walked among men (often in disguise). Which of the Founding Fathers would have wanted to discriminate against them, by only associating Constitutional rights with human-ness??? The concept of "human rights" is, stupidly, nothing more than an invitation for humanity to be punished for short-sightedly paving the way for discrimination/prejudice against all types of non-human persons[SUP](1)[/SUP].

Thanks to modern scientific research, there happens to be an extremely easy way to understand what a person truly is. Just answer this (kind of messy) question: "IF you were visiting a modern well-equipped medical laboratory, and some madman with a machete cut your head off in an attempt to murder you, but rescuers arrived in time, would you want them to save your headless human body, or save your severed head, to save YOU-the-person?" See? A person is a mind, not a body! The type of body inhabited by a mind is totally irrelevant to the Constitution --and therefore persons can have extraterrestrial alien bodies, robot bodies, and even dolphin bodies. Furthermore, doctors and scientists and lawyers agree that if a mind doesn't exist, then no person exists[SUP](2)[/SUP] --even if a human body is still alive! Any controversy can be associated with an entirely different question: "How much mind does an entity have to have, to qualify as a person?" Well, the scientists have a lot[SUP](3)[/SUP] of data[SUP](4)[/SUP] about that[SUP](5)[/SUP], too!

Back to the Founding Fathers, who included a very relevant thing in the Constitution, the decennial Census, which required that every person must be counted (except Indians not taxed). The Founding Fathers were there in 1790 to specify the details of the very first counting for the Census. For this letter's purpose it doesn't matter that slaves were only partly counted; what matters is that pregnancies were totally ignored! In those days the unborn were not even considered to be alive before they began to "kick" in the womb (an event called "quickening") --and if they had ever been considered to be persons, the Constitutionally mandated Census required them to be counted!!! This legal Precedent about the non-person status of the unborn has been consistently maintained for well over 200 years, far older than the Roe v Wade Decision. In no Census have pregnancies ever been counted as persons![SUP](6)[/SUP]
 
[post 2 of 2]

The word "potential" is now a relevant topic. It is easily proved that a potentiality is very different from an actuality. Just buy a lottery ticket for a million-dollar prize --you are now a potential winner, so should you be taxed like an actual winner? Of course not! And therefore an unborn human animal body, having potential to someday acquire a mind that has personhood, need not be treated like an actual person, an actual mind occupying a body.

Between the centuries of the Census Precedent, plus the 13th Amendment forbidding involuntary servitude, plus all the modern scientific data available about personhood, there is nowadays no valid rationale to legally grant person status to the unborn. The scientific data clearly shows that unborn humans cannot pass even one personhood test[SUP](3)[/SUP] passed by dolphins --and no person must serve a mere-animal entity. Arbitrarily giving person-rights to unborn human animal bodies would equally-arbitrarily place unwilling pregnant women into involuntary servitude.

One final thing: There is a widespread belief that human mental development is as inevitable as normal physical development. That belief was tested by accident in 1980's Romania[SUP](7)[/SUP]. Abortion was banned and many babies went to orphanages ("You wanted them born; you care for them!"), where they were physically treated satisfactorily, but were not "nurtured" with the degree of mental stimulation essential to convert human animals into human persons[SUP](8)[/SUP]. Basically, the belief specified at the start of this paragraph was proved to be totally wrong! There is a "default natural mental state" for humans, a "feral" state that existed for perhaps 100,000 years of human history prior to the Late Stone Age[SUP](9)[/SUP], a "clever animal" status that any young human will have, if does not get nurtured with significant mental stimulation. Meanwhile, the potential for humanity's "normal today" advanced mental state has existed for megayears; see the well-nurtured Koko the Gorilla[SUP](10)[/SUP] and Chantek the Orangutan[SUP](11)[/SUP]. Since "potential" and "actual" are two different things, most gorillas and orangutans cannot qualify as persons, just like all unborn humans.

Thank you for reading this,
A Concerned Mind

(1) - Chapter 13
(2) https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/braindeath
(3) https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/mirror_test.htm
(4) https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=228x11015
(5) If Your Dog Tasted Like Pork, Would You Eat Her? | PETA
(6) https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/index_of_questions/
(7) http://www.abc.net.au/radionational.../inside-the-iron-curtain’s-orphanages/5543388
(8) https://prezi.com/j15n2ivfb85w/feral-children-and-the-brain/?webgl=0
(9) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/26/science/when-humans-became-human.html
(10) http://www.koko.org/project-koko
(11) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...xperiment-ultimately-victim-intelligence.html
 
10 bucks says he replies: "tl;dr".
 
I would bet that since you sent it anonymously those letters never even got to the judges.

As for what I think of the letter itself. It's obviously a pro-abortion letter. It will be ignored by a conservative judge. And it will be ignored by all judges because you're talking about ET's in there also. Not to mention the whole "severed head" bit you had going on would probably put them off.
 
Well, we are talking about lawyer-type stuff here, and laws can be pretty lengthy. How long or short is the average "friend of the Court" legal brief? Do those things get routinely ignored?

I think a 2 page, 1000 word "letter" to a Supreme Court Justice starting with "Hello" has about as much chance of being read as President Trumps comments being presented in context by the liberal press.
 
Probably about as effective as a 17 page resume. May be filled with wonderful stuff...but it wont wont make it past the first sentence.
 
I would bet that since you sent it anonymously those letters never even got to the judges.
I'm aware that is a significant possibility, if for no reason other than the fact I'm sure each Justice has a staff that does things like read mail. On the other hand, email has taken over the world, and snail-mail is pretty rare by comparison nowadays. I can hope that the relative unusual-ness of receiving an on-paper letter might make a difference there.

As for what I think of the letter itself. It's obviously a pro-abortion letter.
REGARDLESS OF THAT, it is about personhood and the Constitution. Lots of folks seem to think that before the Roe v Wade Decision, unborn humans qualified as persons in the USA. Nope!

It will be ignored by a conservative judge.
THE JOB of a judge is to hear both sides of a case. And according to what I've read about how the Supreme Court does things, the Justices discuss various aspects of a case among themselves before reaching a Decision. So if my letter gets read by even one of them, key points are likely to get discussed by all of them.

And it will be ignored by all judges because you're talking about ET's in there also.
THEY WILL KNOW ABOUT LEGAL STUFF ALREADY ASSOCIATED WITH ET. They will know about India granting legal-person status to dolphins. Do you really think that the bigoted notion that only humans can be persons can prevail among the Justices? And remember that just about the very first thing in the letter is the statement that the Constitution uses the word "person" throughout, and doesn't use the word "human" even once...that part will get read before discovering anything in the letter about ET, or which side of the Overall Abortion Debate the letter supports!

Not to mention the whole "severed head" bit you had going on would probably put them off.
YET EVEN THAT is preceded by "there happens to be an extremely easy way to understand what a person truly is" --when **you** read the part about the severed head, did you fail to think about the nature of personhood? Not even after any immediate revulsion had diminished? The idea here (behind the including of that in the letter) was on a par with telling someone to not think about green elephants....
 
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Probably about as effective as a 17 page resume. May be filled with wonderful stuff...but it wont wont make it past the first sentence.
The first sentence was intended to be humorous, and to pique interest. In order to find out how the rest of the letter is "laughable", It Logically Follows that the letter needs to be read....
 
The first sentence was intended to be humorous, and to pique interest. In order to find out how the rest of the letter is "laughable", It Logically Follows that the letter needs to be read....
Just sayin...I sincerely doubt a Supreme Court Justice is interested in your opinion or wit. I am also relatively certain that it probably never made it past a legal assistant somewhere...who also didnt read past the first line.
 
Just sayin...I sincerely doubt a Supreme Court Justice is interested in your opinion or wit. I am also relatively certain that it probably never made it past a legal assistant somewhere...who also didnt read past the first line.
Do keep in mind that not all the Justices are political conservatives, and that not all legal assistants are political conservatives, and that I sent somewhat similar letters to all the other Justices...so if the Justices discuss details of issues before reaching a Decision, there is a chance that points raised in those letters will get discussed.

I'm sure that any ordinary person opposing abortion will desperately want those points to get ignored, entirely because no ordinary abortion opponent has any rationale for showing that those points are legally flawed. But only time will tell if such ignoring actually happens....
 
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Do keep in mind that not all the Justices are political conservatives, and that not all legal assistants are political conservatives, and that I sent somewhat similar letters to all the other Justices...so if the Justices discuss details of issues before reaching a Decision, there is a chance that points raised in those letters will get discussed.

I'm sure that any ordinary person opposing abortion will desperately want those points to get ignored, entirely because no ordinary abortion opponent has any rationale for showing that those points are legally flawed. But only time will tell if such ignoring actually happens....

You want animals to be considered people, but believe unborn human beings in the womb are not. That's about as idiotic as it gets. I hope Justice Gorsuch didn't waste his valuable time with this nonsense. :roll:
 
It's also laughably devoid of merit or sanity, so there is that.
 
You want animals to be considered people
STUPIDLY FALSE. I want minds to be considered people, since that is Objectively Verifiable Fact. And if you somehow think that humans are not animals, maybe you should go back to 3rd grade. And we expect intelligent extraterrestrial alien beings to often have animal bodies, too! (Some aliens might have robot bodies; do you have a problem with that, a problem of Stupid Prejudice?) All persons will have minds in common, regardless of what kind of bodies they have.

, but believe unborn human
THEY ARE ONLY MINDLESS ANIMALS, not even as smart as dogs. Are you planning on granting person status to dogs, because they are smarter than unborn humans? Or are you simply exhibiting Stupid Prejudice?

THE WORD "BEINGS" IS JUST A SYNONYM FOR THE WORD "PERSONS". How can you possibly think that merely calling some entity a person makes it qualify as a person? If you imagined that the forest contained "deer beings", would you oppose hunting season in that forest?

in the womb are not.
HAVE YOU ANY EVIDENCE THAT UNBORN HUMANS QUALIFY AS "BEINGS"??? If you do, let's see it!!! Because all the evidence I've ever seen indicates that they qualify only as mere-animal entities. What was that, at the start of your post, about wanting animals to be considered people???

That's about as idiotic as it gets.
THE IDIOCY SPOUTED BY ABORTION OPPONENTS IS FAR WORSE. Their Stupid Prejudice about the word "human" means they want 100% human hydatidiform moles to be declared persons with rights! Tsk, tsk!

I hope Justice Gorsuch didn't waste his valuable time with this nonsense. :roll:
OF COURSE YOU DON'T. You apparently want Stupid Prejudice to be in charge of the Law of the Land. Tsk, tsk!
 
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It's also laughably devoid of merit or sanity, so there is that.
YOUR TYPICAL GENERIC DENUNCIATION IS AS WORTHLESS AS IT AS EVER BEEN. When will you point out an actual specific flaw in even one of my arguments, and explain in detail why the thing you point out qualifies as flawed? So long as you don't do that, everyone else is free to think you are simply spouting a Stupid Lie. Tsk, tsk!
 
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Scientists studying what makes something a person is the dumbest thing ever. The concept of a person is a human creation that has no scientific merit, so there is no way to determine it scientifically. What is and is not a person is subjective with no objective parts to use as a way to determine an answer objectively. Saying that a fetus is not a person scientifically is just dumb.
 
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Scientists studying what makes something a person is the dumbest thing ever.
I WOULDN'T BE A BIT SURPRISED IF ABORTION OPPONENTS MAKE SUCH A CLAIM, JUST SO THEY CAN EXCUSE THEIR FUNDAMENTAL STUPID PREJUDICE. What is YOUR answer to my Question, "IF you were visiting a modern well-equipped medical laboratory, and some madman with a machete cut your head off in an attempt to murder you, but rescuers arrived in time, would you want them to save your headless human body, or save your severed head, to save YOU-the-person?"

You might also keep this story/article in mind....

The concept of a person is a human creation
TRUE

that has no scientific merit,
FALSE. When humans claim that their personhood makes them superior to ordinary animals, it is a perfectly scientifically valid thing to examine exactly what the difference is, between persons and ordinary animals. ESPECIALLY when the concept of "person" has historically included lots of non-human entities, such as angels and elves and Chinese dragons and Arabian djinns, and more.

so there is no way to determine it scientifically.
THE EVIDENCE APPEARS TO BE AGAINST YOU, ABOUT THAT. And so I wrote this, about that....

What is and is not a person is subjective
ONLY IF YOU NEVER LET SCIENTISTS STUDY THE SUBJECT. Which sounds to me like a far more idiotic thing to do, letting Stupid Prejudice decide which entities qualify as persons, and which don't. Why should nonhuman intelligent beings think YOU deserve to be considered a person with rights?

with no objective parts to use as a way to determine an answer objectively.
REALLY? Exactly how is the "mirror test", for example, **not** an Objective test of self-awareness for entities that have eyes?

Saying that a fetus is not a person scientifically is just dumb.
IT IS ENTIRELY CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE DATA THAT SCIENTISTS HAVE GATHERED ABOUT PERSONS. Remember that there are those who claim dolphins qualify as persons --but unborn humans cannot pass even one of the many personhood tests that dolphins can pass. And there also exists Koko the Gorilla and Chantek the Orangutan, as having personhood roughly equivalent to human 3-year-olds. They also can pass tests no unborn human can pass.

When was the last time you read my "signature"? What is your answer to the question at the end of it?
 
[post 2 of 2]

The word "potential" is now a relevant topic. It is easily proved that a potentiality is very different from an actuality. Just buy a lottery ticket for a million-dollar prize --you are now a potential winner, so should you be taxed like an actual winner? Of course not! And therefore an unborn human animal body, having potential to someday acquire a mind that has personhood, need not be treated like an actual person, an actual mind occupying a body.

Between the centuries of the Census Precedent, plus the 13th Amendment forbidding involuntary servitude, plus all the modern scientific data available about personhood, there is nowadays no valid rationale to legally grant person status to the unborn.

God is the final arbiter in the universe, and the killing of the innocent unborn is murder.

It is clear in scripture that in some way, God creates life in a mother’s womb.

Psalm 139:13 – ‘For you (God) created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.’

Of course, the question for the pro-abortion crowd, is:

What divine insight does the pro-abortion crowd think they have to where they can destroy in a mother’s womb that which God is somehow instrumental in creating?

https://righterreport.com/2011/10/29/obama-vs-the-bible-abortion/

Choose life, your mother did.
 
God is the final arbiter in the universe,


Which god? There are many of them.


and the killing of the innocent unborn is murder.


Incorrect. Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. If abortion is legal, it CANNOT be murder (ignoring the fact that the zef is not a person).

It is clear in scripture that in some way, God creates life in a mother’s womb.

Psalm 139:13 – ‘For you (God) created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.’

Then why does a woman have to have sex to get pregnant? (barring IVF and the like)



Choose life, your mother did.


She should have aborted all of her pregnancies. She had no business giving birth.
 
Well, we are talking about lawyer-type stuff here, and laws can be pretty lengthy. How long or short is the average "friend of the Court" legal brief? Do those things get routinely ignored?


So, your sources are the nytimes and a source with the title: "If Your Dog Tasted Like Pork, Would You Eat Her? PETA."

The judges do not have time to read leaders from radical zealots that believe abortion should have no limits and the belief that fetus's are the equivalent to parasites.

None of the judges on the Supreme Court believe this nonsense and luckily the majority of Americans in this country do either.
 
Which god? There are many of them.

The one liberals usually don't like.

Incorrect. Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. If abortion is legal, it CANNOT be murder (ignoring the fact that the zef is not a person).

Incorrect. It's murder in God's eyes because what's legal on earth is not always legal in heaven.
 
The one liberals usually don't like.

You will have to be more specific, as I have no idea what you mean.



Incorrect. It's murder in God's eyes because what's legal on earth is not always legal in heaven.

Religion is not relevant to making laws. And again, which god? There are many of them. I know of none where abortion is forbidden in any of their holy books.
 
You will have to be more specific, as I have no idea what you mean.

He is talking about ''god.'' To him, there is only one ''god'' not the bunch of other gods like Zeus, Sol, Serqet, Freya etc.
 
You will have to be more specific, as I have no idea what you mean.

Which religious book do the liberals try to keep out of schools? Certainly not the Koran.

Religion is not relevant to making laws. And again, which god? There are many of them. I know of none where abortion is forbidden in any of their holy books.

Wrong.

https://righterreport.com/2011/10/29/obama-vs-the-bible-abortion/

It is clear in scripture that in some way, God creates life in a mother’s womb.

Psalm 139:13 – ‘For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.’

Of course, the question for the pro-abortion crowd, is: What divine insight does the pro-abortion crowd think they have to where they can destroy in a mother’s womb that which God is somehow instrumental in creating?

Answer the question?
 
God is the final arbiter in the universe,
ONLY IF GOD EXISTS. I'm often willing to assume it for the sake of certain arguments. However, that doesn't mean I accept the claim the rest of the time, just because someone claims it. Per the Rules of Debate, you have made a positive claim that you need to support with evidence. Well?

and the killing of the innocent unborn
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "INNOCENT UNBORN" --at least if they are older than about a week after conception. Unborn humans are totally guilty of committing assault, at least 4 different ways, starting with invading the womb, burying part of itself much like a tick's head. It steals biological nutrients from the body of its hostess; it dumps toxic biowastes into the body of its hostess, and it infuses addictive and mind-altering substances into the body of its hostess. Anyone calling the typical unborn human "innocent" is either spouting an Ignorant Lie (a falsehood told in ignorance of Objectively Verifiable Facts), or a Stupid Lie (a lie that is easy to prove is a lie)

is murder.
IGNORANTLY FALSE. Only persons can be murdered, not mindless animals like ticks or unborn humans. And you know what a person truly is; just Answer this Question: "If you were visiting a modern well-equipped medical laboratory, and some madman with a machete cut your head off in an attempt to murder you, but rescuers arrived in time, would you want them to save your headless human body, or save your severed head, to save YOU-the-person?" The words "human" and "person" refer to totally different/unrelated concepts.

It is clear in scripture that in some way, God creates life in a mother’s womb.
GOD IS NOT THAT STUPID/IGNORANT. You are talking about the same God that supposedly knows everything, including all the details about how the physical Universe works in accordance with the Law of Cause and Effect. So, since humans know that partially living things like sperm and ova can exist and interact and produce fully living things like zygotes, that same God should know it too, and doesn't need to do anything for Nature to take its course (follow the genetic programming built into the DNA of the zygote). The Bible was written by folks who had no idea how the Universe worked, and erroneously blamed every little thing on God. Tsk, tsk!

Psalm 139:13 – ‘For you (God) created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.’
IGNORANCE REPEATED DOESN'T EQUAL FACT. And you should look at Exodus 21:22, because even if God had some sort of interest in an unborn human, an unborn human can still be killed and the penalty for doing that can be **ZERO**.

Of course, the question for the pro-abortion crowd,
DOES NOT APPLY TO MOST PRO-CHOICERS. Promoting the freedom to choose to do something, like say smoke marijuana, does not equate with encouraging folks to smoke marijuana. (I support that freedom while I equally think anyone who does it for non-medical purposes is a fool who is committing slow suicide. And there is no contradiction because humanity's long-term survival could be improved by letting fools kill themselves off --would you rather they got their fingers on the nuke buttons?)

IF YOU MAKE THE POSITIVE CLAIM THAT PRO-CHOICE EQUALS ENCOURAGING ABORTIONS, LET'S SEE THE EVIDENCE! Otherwise you are simply spouting a Stupid Lie.

ANOTHER POSITIVE CLAIM COMING UP. Where is the Objectively Verifiable Evidence to support the claim? Tsk, tsk!

What divine insight does the pro-abortion crowd think they have to where they can destroy in a mother’s womb that which God is somehow instrumental in creating?
WHEN LIARS LIE, THEY CAN BE IGNORED. Duuuuhhhh!!!

Choose life, your mother did.
THAT WAS HER CHOICE. It does not equate to a demand that others copy that choice.
 
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