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So prolifers want to "get back to the Hippocratic oath"? Fine. Then do it proper

Phys251

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
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From time to time, we hear from the prolifers that we need to get back to the Hippocratic oath: "First, do no harm." That never appears anywhere in any accepted version of the oath. Or, "I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion." OK fine, if you're going to play that game, let's set aside for the moment just how frequently doctors tend to overlook their women patients' needs when it comes to childbirth, whether that be the desire to have no C-section except as a last resort, or particular accommodations for the newborn, or pushing mothers out of hospitals before they may be ready, etc. No, if we really want to "get back to the Hippocratic oath," then we should go back to the first line of the original oath:

"I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture."

No Jesus. No Jehova Rapha (God the healer). Nope, we're going old school, all the way back to the Greek gods.

So, prolifers, if you still want to make the Hippocratic oath as a part of your arsenal, the very least you could do is actually read it first and not insert your Jesus into something that never had it in the first place.
 
JEHOVAH RAPHA translated means THE LORD YOUR HEALER

Think I'll stick with what I know.
 
...what is this then? You want people to swear by the Old Gods?
 
Phys251 said:
From time to time, we hear from the prolifers that we need to get back to the Hippocratic oath: "First, do no harm." That never appears anywhere in any accepted version of the oath. Or, "I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion." OK fine, if you're going to play that game, let's set aside for the moment just how frequently doctors tend to overlook their women patients' needs when it comes to childbirth, whether that be the desire to have no C-section except as a last resort, or particular accommodations for the newborn, or pushing mothers out of hospitals before they may be ready, etc. No, if we really want to "get back to the Hippocratic oath," then we should go back to the first line of the original oath:

"I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture."

No Jesus. No Jehova Rapha (God the healer). Nope, we're going old school, all the way back to the Greek gods.

So, prolifers, if you still want to make the Hippocratic oath as a part of your arsenal, the very least you could do is actually read it first and not insert your Jesus into something that never had it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the history and current use of the oath are considerably more complicated than you say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

But that's what happens when you try to score cheap troll points.
 
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Harshaw said:
Yeah, the history and current use of the oath are considerably more complicated than you say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

But that's what happens when you try to score cheap troll points.
Click to expand...

And right off the bat, we have someone denying a known tactic used by prolifers. But who am I kidding, honesty has never been their strong suit.
 
Phys251 said:
And right off the bat, we have someone denying a known tactic used by prolifers. But who am I kidding, honesty has never been their strong suit.
Click to expand...

:roll:

Is it possible for you to have an honest conversation? I have not seen that it is.

But hey, do tell me what I "denied," and specifically how.
 
Iatrogenic death is the #4 leading cause of death in America. That's death due to prescribed modern medicine, in case you don't know.

In all practicality the Hippocratic Oath isn't being practiced anymore. Money comes first.

As for the abortion angle... sorry to break it to you, but abortion was widely practiced in Greece. People did it to themselves or went to the medical institutions to have it done. The historical precedent that fetuses are alive and have a right to life didn't really start in the west until after the 1850's. Even during the height of Church rule in Europe, abortion was not outlawed.

"Do no harm" has no relevance to non-persons. If it did, animals would have a lot more rights.
 
Phys251 said:
And right off the bat, we have someone denying a known tactic used by prolifers. But who am I kidding, honesty has never been their strong suit.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? This is just a drama thread. It's like Future's thread where she claimed to know what god supports. It's just muckraking.

What's the point of your thread? That people should swear by the old gods if they want to adhere to the concepts of the Hippocratic Oath? This thread of yours wasn't even meant for conversation, it's meant to rile people up and cause drama. What a Trump thing to do.
 
Ikari said:
What do you mean? This is just a drama thread. It's like Future's thread where she claimed to know what god supports. It's just muckraking.

What's the point of your thread? That people should swear by the old gods if they want to adhere to the concepts of the Hippocratic Oath? This thread of yours wasn't even meant for conversation, it's meant to rile people up and cause drama. What a Trump thing to do.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if you are aware of this or not, but the invocation of prolifers' particular interpretation of the Hippocratic Oath is a common tactic of theirs. I'd rather not have to sift through a bunch of crackpot "prolife" websites to make my point.
 
Harshaw said:
:roll:

Is it possible for you to have an honest conversation? I have not seen that it is.

But hey, do tell me what I "denied," and specifically how.
Click to expand...

A prolifer is attempting to lecture me about honesty? :lol:
 
Phys251 said:
From time to time, we hear from the prolifers that we need to get back to the Hippocratic oath: "First, do no harm." That never appears anywhere in any accepted version of the oath. Or, "I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion." OK fine, if you're going to play that game, let's set aside for the moment just how frequently doctors tend to overlook their women patients' needs when it comes to childbirth, whether that be the desire to have no C-section except as a last resort, or particular accommodations for the newborn, or pushing mothers out of hospitals before they may be ready, etc. No, if we really want to "get back to the Hippocratic oath," then we should go back to the first line of the original oath:

"I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture."

No Jesus. No Jehova Rapha (God the healer). Nope, we're going old school, all the way back to the Greek gods.

So, prolifers, if you still want to make the Hippocratic oath as a part of your arsenal, the very least you could do is actually read it first and not insert your Jesus into something that never had it in the first place.
Click to expand...

There is also this paragraph:

To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician’s oath, but to nobody else.
Click to expand...


So, if any doctors' teachers need money, they have to give it to them; they also have to teach medicine without compensation.
 
Phys251 said:
A prolifer is attempting to lecture me about honesty? :lol:
Click to expand...

So you can't point to anything I denied. Noted, but of course everyone knew you couldn't.

You also can't point to a single thing indicating I'm a "prolifer," either.

But that's how trolling works, of course. :roll:

Meanwhile, what I said in my original post stands, something you haven't even tried to refute.
 
Harshaw said:
So you can't point to anything I denied. Noted, but of course everyone knew you couldn't.

You also can't point to a single thing indicating I'm a "prolifer," either.

But that's how trolling works, of course. :roll:

Meanwhile, what I said in my original post stands, something you haven't even tried to refute.
Click to expand...

The anti-choice side is legendary for its dishonesty. The OP intends to call out one form of it. It is not my problem if you cannot understand that. :shrug:
 
Phys251 said:
The anti-choice side is legendary for its dishonesty. The OP intends to call out one form of it. It is not my problem if you cannot understand that. :shrug:
Click to expand...

:yawn: When you're ready to address what I said, let me know.

This trolling is pretty weak sauce. You've done better.
 
Harshaw said:
:yawn: When you're ready to address what I said, let me know.

This trolling is pretty weak sauce. You've done better.
Click to expand...

Whatever.
 
Phys251 said:
From time to time, we hear from the prolifers that we need to get back to the Hippocratic oath: "First, do no harm." That never appears anywhere in any accepted version of the oath. Or, "I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion." OK fine, if you're going to play that game, let's set aside for the moment just how frequently doctors tend to overlook their women patients' needs when it comes to childbirth, whether that be the desire to have no C-section except as a last resort, or particular accommodations for the newborn, or pushing mothers out of hospitals before they may be ready, etc. No, if we really want to "get back to the Hippocratic oath," then we should go back to the first line of the original oath:

"I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture."

No Jesus. No Jehova Rapha (God the healer). Nope, we're going old school, all the way back to the Greek gods.

So, prolifers, if you still want to make the Hippocratic oath as a part of your arsenal, the very least you could do is actually read it first and not insert your Jesus into something that never had it in the first place.
Click to expand...

I honestly can't think of one instance where a pro-lifer said that Jesus had anything to do with the Hippocratic Oath.
 
Josie said:
I honestly can't think of one instance where a pro-lifer said that Jesus had anything to do with the Hippocratic Oath.
Click to expand...

OK, that's it. You guys wanna accuse me of bluffing? Fine.

Hippocratic Oath and Abortion | Baby's Humanity Always Known | American Right To Life
EWTN.com - Hippocratic Oath : Abortion?
The Case Against Abortion: Abortion and the Hippocratic Oath

And that's enough of my rifing through some crackpot prolife sites. A win for you on that front. But a loss for you on your assumption that I was bluffing.
 
Phys251 said:
OK, that's it. You guys wanna accuse me of bluffing? Fine.

Hippocratic Oath and Abortion | Baby's Humanity Always Known | American Right To Life
Click to expand...

That doesn't say Jesus has anything to do with the Oath.

Phys251 said:
OKEWTN.com - Hippocratic Oath : Abortion?
Click to expand...

Can you find the name "Jesus" here? I didn't see it.

Phys251 said:
OKThe Case Against Abortion: Abortion and the Hippocratic Oath
Click to expand...

And, again, no mention of Jesus.

Phys251 said:
OKAnd that's enough of my rifing through some crackpot prolife sites. A win for you on that front. But a loss for you on your assumption that I was bluffing.
Click to expand...

You didn't even READ the articles you posted. If you had, you would've known they didn't support your OP.
 
Josie said:
That doesn't say Jesus has anything to do with the Oath.

Can you find the name "Jesus" here? I didn't see it.

And, again, no mention of Jesus.

You didn't even READ the articles you posted. If you had, you would've known they didn't support your OP.
Click to expand...

How did I know that this would be your response? Josie I am not going to play this little game with you. The OP says, which I will repost here for your convenience:

Phys251 said:
From time to time, we hear from the prolifers that we need to get back to the Hippocratic oath: "First, do no harm." That never appears anywhere in any accepted version of the oath. Or, "I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion." OK fine, if you're going to play that game, let's set aside for the moment just how frequently doctors tend to overlook their women patients' needs when it comes to childbirth, whether that be the desire to have no C-section except as a last resort, or particular accommodations for the newborn, or pushing mothers out of hospitals before they may be ready, etc. No, if we really want to "get back to the Hippocratic oath," then we should go back to the first line of the original oath:

"I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture."

No Jesus. No Jehova Rapha (God the healer). Nope, we're going old school, all the way back to the Greek gods.

So, prolifers, if you still want to make the Hippocratic oath as a part of your arsenal, the very least you could do is actually read it first and not insert your Jesus into something that never had it in the first place.
Click to expand...

It very clearly says that prolifers like to use their personal interpretation of the Hippocratic oath as an anti-abortion weapon. All three quack sites I linked to do that.

Now if you want to critique the last sentence as if you know more about what was on the author's mind than the author himself does, go ahead and embarrass yourself again.
 
Phys251 said:
How did I know that this would be your response? Josie I am not going to play this little game with you. The OP says, which I will repost here for your convenience:



It very clearly says that prolifers like to use their personal interpretation of the Hippocratic oath as an anti-abortion weapon. All three quack sites I linked to do that.

Now if you want to critique the last sentence as if you know more about what was on the author's mind than the author himself does, go ahead and embarrass yourself again.
Click to expand...

The overall theme of the Oath IS to do no harm.

The entire point of this thread was to call out pro-lifers for saying that Jesus has something do with the Hippocratic Oath. You made a really big deal out of it -- and hey -- you got TWO LIKES! However, you haven't shown one instance of a pro-lifer saying Jesus has anything to do with the Oath. You googled a couple words and then copied/pasted the first websites you saw that you thought might support your OP, but none of them did. How embarrassing for you.
 
Josie said:
The overall theme of the Oath IS to do no harm.

The entire point of this thread was to call out pro-lifers for saying that Jesus has something do with the Hippocratic Oath. You made a really big deal out of it -- and hey -- you got TWO LIKES! However, you haven't shown one instance of a pro-lifer saying Jesus has anything to do with the Oath. You googled a couple words and then copied/pasted the first websites you saw that you thought might support your OP, but none of them did. How embarrassing for you.
Click to expand...

Josie you are choosing to play an incredibly dishonest game here. I made my position crystal clear, which is that prolifers love to misuse the Hippocratic Oath in order to suit their own agenda. A couple of y'all denied this. So I posted a few examples which I was able to find in a quick Google search.

It is not my problem that you are stubbornly refusing to accept my point regardless of the evidence given to you. But I suppose that I should not be surprised. :shrug:
 
Phys251 said:
Josie you are choosing to play an incredibly dishonest game here. I made my position crystal clear, which is that prolifers love to misuse the Hippocratic Oath in order to suit their own agenda.
Click to expand...

I know. You said pro-lifers connect Jesus Christ with the HO. You pointed out that the original Oath mentioned Greek gods and goddesses instead of the Christian God. Remember? It wasn't very long ago that you wrote that....

Phys251 said:
A couple of y'all denied this. So I posted a few examples which I was able to find in a quick Google search.
Click to expand...

Your answer to my comment about never hearing a pro-lifer connect Jesus to the Oath was to link 3 websites that showed no pro-lifers connecting Jesus to the Oath. You proved my point, not your own. Now you want to retract it and pretend like you never mentioned Jesus....

Phys251 said:
It is not my problem that you are stubbornly refusing to accept my point regardless of the evidence given to you. But I suppose that I should not be surprised. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Why should I accept your point when you've failed to prove it?
 
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Josie said:
I know. You said pro-lifers say that Jesus has to do with the Oath. It wasn't very long ago that you wrote that....

Your answer to my comment about never hearing a pro-lifer connect Jesus to the Oath was to link 3 websites that showed no pro-lifers connecting Jesus to the Oath. You proved my point, not your own. Now you want to retract it and pretend like you never mentioned Jesus....

It is not my problem that you are stubbornly refusing to accept my point regardless of the evidence given to you. But I suppose that I should not be surprised. :shrug:
Click to expand...

OK Josie, apparently I am going to have to break this down into even simpler terms for you. First of all, I want you to study the following chart:

FT_17.01.26_abortion_religion.png


(Source)

You...do see the correlation, right? That negative correlation between religion and support for abortion rights? Or am I going to have to explain that one to you as well?

Religious beliefs are a strong basis for opposition to abortion rights, or at the very least, the correlation exists. (Sure you will find exceptions on both sides, but there's a reason they're called exceptions.) Now do you understand? Or am I going to have to break this down for you further still?

What part of "pro-lifers like to use the Hippocratic Oath" do you not understand? Your silence in refuting that point is deafening.
 
Phys251 said:
OK Josie, apparently I am going to have to break this down into even simpler terms for you.
Click to expand...

No, you're trying to backpedal and pretend I'm the stupid one here because you realize you cannot support your OP. :)

Phys251 said:
First of all, I want you to study the following chart:

FT_17.01.26_abortion_religion.png


(Source)

You...do see the correlation, right? That negative correlation between religion and support for abortion rights? Or am I going to have to explain that one to you as well?

Religious beliefs are a strong basis for opposition to abortion rights, or at the very least, the correlation exists. (Sure you will find exceptions on both sides, but there's a reason they're called exceptions.) Now do you understand? Or am I going to have to break this down for you further still?
Click to expand...

And? I've never claimed that opposition to abortion has no correlation to religion. Nor does this chart prove your point that pro-lifers believe Jesus has anything to do with the HO.

Phys251 said:
What part of "pro-lifers like to use the Hippocratic Oath" do you not understand? Your silence in refuting that point is deafening.
Click to expand...

Pro-lifers are mostly religious people, therefore, when they use the HO in debate, that means they believe the HO is a religious text. <<< THAT is your point and you haven't proven it one tiny lil bit. Not to mention that it's an embarrassingly moronic thing to say.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a pro-lifer claiming Jesus was part of or had any connection to the Hippocratic Oath.
 
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Josie said:
No, you're trying to backpedal and pretend I'm the stupid one here because you realize you cannot support your OP. :)



And? I've never claimed that opposition to abortion has no correlation to religion. Nor does this chart prove your point that pro-lifers believe Jesus has anything to do with the HO.



Pro-lifers are mostly religious people, therefore, when they use the HO in debate, that means they believe the HO is a religious text. <<< THAT is your point and you haven't proven it one tiny lil bit. Not to mention that it's an embarrassingly moronic thing to say.
Click to expand...

I've already repeated my point three times for you. That you are willfully refusing to acknowledge it is your problem and your problem alone.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a pro-lifer claiming Jesus was part of or had any connection to the Hippocratic Oath.
Click to expand...

Yes or no: Do prolifers tend to use their interpretation of the Hippocratic oath in order to support their views? Yes or no.

Also yes or no: Does there exist a negative correlation in this country between religious views and support for abortion rights? Yes or no.
 
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