Do you concede abortion should be banned at some point?[W:415]

joG said:

The socialization that the kids missed is not easily picked up later, while sex is usually driven by hormones it is often accompanied by alcohol or other substances. That is also, when it is more probably to forget the safe sex options. So, you are right, that most abortions are not on 14 years olds but on persons in their 20ies, it is the lust principal egocentricity they picked up earlier. This is much like an other change in societal practice a couple of decades ago. Allowing divorce did not break down the habits of life long commitment on marriage and other contracts immediately. That has happened slowly and is still changing society in at the time quite unexpected ways. I am not saying this is good or bad right here. But it would be silly to think it was not a radical change of society and quite open as to whether we will stick to the changes. Alone the superbug gonorrhea could change all that like syphilis did at the beginning of the Renaissance.

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minnie616 said:

From the CDC

In 2014, 18.9% of U.S. pregnancies (excluding spontaneous miscarriages) ended in abortion.

That's down from 2011 when 22.2% of U.S. pregnancies (excluding miscarriages ) ended in miscarriage.

And down from the mid 1980s when about 33% of U.S. pregnancies were aborted.

From 2013 CDC stats:


Teens 11.7 percent
20-29 year olds 58.6 percent
The remainder 29.7 percent were those over age 30

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joG said:

I hadn't seen the miscarriage numbers, but the others are about the same as I had in mind. So twens are poorly socialized. Not so unexpected, is it?

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joG said:

I hadn't seen the miscarriage numbers, but the others are about the same as I had in mind. So twens are poorly socialized. Not so unexpected, is it?

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minnie616 said:

There are no miscarriage numbers but we know between 15 % and 20 % of known pregnancies miscarry.

I disagree about being poorly socialized.

It's the fact that most young persons in their 20s do not have the job stablity to be able afford the time off for doctor's visits or the finances to remain pregnant let along care for a baby.

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joG said:

Then their parents didn't socialise them well enough to avoid pregnancy. That we have step by step built a society that makes sex ubiquitous and is a matter of shame to have to admit to not having had any. Now, I have not been abstinent any more than my generation would lead one to expect. But nobody said that our socialisation was good.

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The reality is a lot of Americans who have jobs are still suffering.
The authors of "The Financial Diaries" followed 235 lower and middle income U.S. families for a year, tracking every dollar they earn and spend. They found that the classic advice to work hard and "save, save, save" just doesn't pan out when so many families face several months a year where they are plunging into poverty, even if they have a job — or two.

"This idea that people are misspending money, or are lazy, it's crazy," says Morduch, a New York University Professor of economics and public policy. He argues that America desperately needs better protections for hourly workers and a stronger safety net that can quickly help lower middle class families that fall into poverty for a few weeks or months of the year.
The American Dream is no longer a house with a yard and pretty fence. It's a stable paycheck, according to a groundbreaking new book, "The Financial Diaries."

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whateverdude said:

We can argue when abortion should be illegal and at what stage of the pregnancy, but to me, that's the smaller debate. And if you're not educated on the development of a fetus, then you don't know what you're talking about.

But do you concede that at some point, based on the status of the fetus, that it should be illegal past a certain point in the pregnancy?

When I say based on the status of the fetus, that's important.
Because some will concede because of risks involving the mother during late term abortion, but not for any ethical opinions relating to the fetus. To me that's extremely selfish and devoid of morality. '

You have to concede that a some point abortion should be illegal because the fetus has developed so much that it's not ethical to kill it. I don't buy the viability argument.
I don't see how whether a fetus can live outside the womb or not is relevant to whether it's deserving of personhood.

And "personhood" is a social construct. Scientifically speaking it's a human with human DNA at every stage of pregnancy. But ethically there's clearly a difference between a fertilized egg and an 8 month old fetus.

I'm not pro-life... But I can't stand the selfishness I see from pro-choice people who basically see any ethical argument that pertains to the fetus as "sexist".
Apparantly, EVERY argument has to be about them.
I think most pro-lifers are pretty dumb too, but at the same time, pro-choice people tend to make strawmen about "sexism" which is just stupid. There's an argument to be had about when abortion is okay and when it isn't.
And you can chime in as a male and not be "sexist"

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minnie616 said:

Most people have long term relations by their mid 20s but many do not have stable jobs.
That's just a sad fact.
Most are not ready to have their families until their late 20s or their 30s.

From the following:

Here is a snip from an article telling us the American dream is no longer a house with a yard it's a stable paycheck.




Read the full story in the book " The Finacial Diaries"

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Moraj said:

I think it should be banned altogether. It is life, after all. :roll:

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