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The #1 thing we should be talking about

year2late said:
Who says it is the only option they consider?
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Often times women do not decide an abortion until the last minute. They entrust their doctors and physicians to help them make a monumental decisions and the abortion is often done in haste.

These abortionists prey on women's emotions, fears and insecurity the same way credit card companies scam people into getting credit cards or car salesmen trick consumers into financing a vehicle.
 
Carjosse said:
We are not pro-abortion, we are pro-choice. Two entirely different things.
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Which of course falsely and stupidly implies that those who oppose you oppose "choice," when I am a big proponent of economic freedom of choice and the natural human right to liberty. Neither of those things have anything to do with it being legal to kill your kid.
 
Bucky said:
Often times women do not decide an abortion until the last minute. They entrust their doctors and physicians to help them make a monumental decisions and the abortion is often done in haste.

These abortionists prey on women's emotions, fears and insecurity the same way credit card companies scam people into getting credit cards or car salesmen trick consumers into financing a vehicle.
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HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?????????

Abortion is an individual decision that is made for a variety of reasons. But it seems you have lumped everybody into one neat little box,
 
Bucky said:
The majority people born in this country were born out of inconvenience and the pregnancy was not planned.
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Most pro-life claim that women have abortions because they are too "convenient", a quick fix to life's difficulties, a self-centered act, a way of avoiding responsibility, a means of escaping consequences for engaging in a natural behavior that involves pleasure and bonding. That having an abortion in order to pursue life opportunities, ones self-interests, self-determination, and liberty - is being inconsiderate, reckless, self-indulging, disrespect for human life, placing value of self as being more important than proliferating humankind, and possibly acting against the will of a supreme being.

Does the above equate to "inconvenience" to you?
 
Northern Light said:
Mother Theresa was a complete charlatan. It has been proven over and over again. A lot of people died of 100% curable ailments under her care because she refused to take them to modern hospitals or allow volunteer doctors in to administer real treatments. If anyone else behaved that way they would be in jail, but because everyone believed in her they let her get away with negligent homicide over and over again. She also turned away desperately ill people who would not subscribe to Catholicism.

That fact aside, the way you frame abortion and the average woman's disposition toward abortion is nothing short if misogyny. Calling people who support the right to choose "abortionists" is a non-starter for discussion. I am personally pro-life in that I would never seek an abortion, but I can't make that decision for millions of women because I don't know their circumstances.
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:applaud
 
Removable Mind said:
Most pro-life claim that women have abortions because they are too "convenient", a quick fix to life's difficulties, a self-centered act, a way of avoiding responsibility, a means of escaping consequences for engaging in a natural behavior that involves pleasure and bonding. That having an abortion in order to pursue life opportunities, ones self-interests, self-determination, and liberty - is being inconsiderate, reckless, self-indulging, disrespect for human life, placing value of self as being more important than proliferating humankind, and possibly acting against the will of a supreme being.

Does the above equate to "inconvenience" to you?
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What would you think of a man that left a child and decided to not support it because he wanted to purse his career uninhibited by a child?
 
Bucky said:
I am 100% pro choice. Every woman has the right to choice. Forcing a woman to have an abortion is not a choice, it is abandonment.
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No one is forcing any woman to have an abortion.
 
JayDubya said:
Which of course falsely and stupidly implies that those who oppose you oppose "choice," when I am a big proponent of economic freedom of choice and the natural human right to liberty. Neither of those things have anything to do with it being legal to kill your kid.
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Quite clearly you are not and are for controlling woman's bodies and choices.
 
Henrin said:
What would you think of a man that left a child and decided to not support it because he wanted to purse his career uninhibited by a child?
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You've just created an argument that involves a situation where a man had some type of established relationship with his child or children and decided to abandon them.

I believe that you already know how I'll respond.

There is no abandoned child or in the case of abortion. If a woman abandons a child or children that she's had an established relationship with, my response would be the same as my response about men.

So feel free to opine as to what you think about men (or women) who willfully abandon his or her child or children they've had established relationships with. I promise not to be surprised.
 
Removable Mind said:
You've just created an argument that involves a situation where a man had some type of established relationship with his child or children and decided to abandon them.

I believe that you already know how I'll respond.

There is no abandoned child or in the case of abortion. If a woman abandons a child or children that she's had an established relationship with, my response would be the same as my response about men.

So feel free to opine as to what you think about men (or women) who willfully abandon his or her child or children they've had established relationships with. I promise not to be surprised.
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I didn't mean to imply he established a realtionship with the child. I was more going for the idea that he left when he found out about it either before or after birth.

If a woman aborts a child to pursue her career uninhibited how is that not worse than a man leaving a child to pursue his career uninhibited? If you have a problem with the later then how can you not have a problem with the former?
 
Carjosse said:
Quite clearly you are not and are for controlling woman's bodies and choices.
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Making it illegal to kill someone else and destroy their body has nothing to do with "controlling your own body" and never will.

Aggresssive violence has no place in economic freedom of choice, either. Only a pure anarchist should tolerate the legality of hiring contract killers... if only because they believe in no laws at all.
 
Henrin said:
I didn't mean to imply he established a realtionship with the child. I was more going for the idea that he left when he found out about it either before or after birth.

If a woman aborts a child to pursue her career uninhibited how is that not worse than a man leaving a child to pursue his career uninhibited? If you have a problem with the later then how can you not have a problem with the former?
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Say what you mean or mean what you say!
 
Bucky said:
I am 100% pro choice and pro options. We as human beings have the free will to make decisions however your right to choice ends when the right of life of another begins.
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Easy to say but doesn't reflect reality. Your opus about 1st trimester abortions, you'd be hard pressed to prove that life begins in the 1st trimester
 
Henrin said:
I didn't mean to imply he established a realtionship with the child. I was more going for the idea that he left when he found out about it either before or after birth.

If a woman aborts a child to pursue her career uninhibited how is that not worse than a man leaving a child to pursue his career uninhibited? If you have a problem with the later then how can you not have a problem with the former?
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Your argument has now moved into "inequalities in reproductive laws" that impact men. I've stated a lot of times that I recognize the inequalities both at the state and federal levels, but I have stated that while I don't have any answers, I've also stated that in my opinion, there is only a very small window of time that men can even make a legal attempt to bring there grievances before the US Supreme Court and before State Supreme Courts to seek changes that would possibly give them any relief from bearing any responsibility in an unwanted pregnancy.

That time is between conception and viability of a fetus. But the first barrier that men will have to overcome is "legally having the right to know that a conception has occurred".

Knowing is a double edged sword. There are two entirely separate motives for wanting to know. Then those arguments go up hill from there.
 
Removable Mind said:
Your argument has now moved into "inequalities in reproductive laws" that impact men. I've stated a lot of times that I recognize the inequalities both at the state and federal levels, but I have stated that while I don't have any answers, I've also stated that in my opinion, there is only a very small window of time that men can even make a legal attempt to bring there grievances before the US Supreme Court and before State Supreme Courts to seek changes that would possibly give them any relief from bearing any responsibility in an unwanted pregnancy.

That time is between conception and viability of a fetus. But the first barrier that men will have to overcome is "legally having the right to know that a conception has occurred".

Knowing is a double edged sword. There are two entirely separate motives for wanting to know. Then those arguments go up hill from there.
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I wasn't speaking towards law in my post nor am I trying to make this into a child support argument. It just seems to me a woman aborting because she wants to pursue her career uninhibited is worse than a man leaving the care of the child up to the mother because he wants to pursue his career uninhibited.
 
Removable Mind said:
Most pro-life claim that women have abortions because they are too "convenient", a quick fix to life's difficulties, a self-centered act, a way of avoiding responsibility, a means of escaping consequences for engaging in a natural behavior that involves pleasure and bonding. That having an abortion in order to pursue life opportunities, ones self-interests, self-determination, and liberty - is being inconsiderate, reckless, self-indulging, disrespect for human life, placing value of self as being more important than proliferating humankind, and possibly acting against the will of a supreme being.

Does the above equate to "inconvenience" to you?
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I support women 100%. Often times they are pressured into having an abortion because their boyfriend/husband would leave them or they might not get that promotion at work. Perhaps their professor at school or supervisor at work wouldn't accommodate their schedule.

These are the things we need to address.
 
Bucky said:
Abortionists have quotas to meet.
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Do they? What can you offer as evidence other than as usual pulling idiotic crap out of your arse?

I'm not sure if you have ever seen a first trimester abortion.
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Have you? Why and when?

It is inhumane and barbaric.
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By what criteria other than the ignorance you constantly display?
 
Carjosse said:
Quite clearly you are not and are for controlling woman's bodies and choices.
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Can I ask you a question?

Why is that the majority of pro-choice groups refuses to support ANY abortion regulation or restriction?

Tell me a restriction that was supported by groups like PP?
 
Henrin said:
I wasn't speaking towards law in my post nor am I trying to make this into a child support argument. It just seems to me a woman aborting because she wants to pursue her career uninhibited is worse than a man leaving the care of the child up to the mother because he wants to pursue his career uninhibited.
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That's because you place more value on the yet to be born over born women who must be able to navigate through her life in a manner she deems necessary.

So her primary burden should be that she must accept her having the biological organs that she acquired by circumstance of birth and allow the government and anyone who objects to abortion - discriminate against her?

What's so wild about your argument is that most conceptions are brought to full term and women who choose to give birth knowing does so inspite of her life circumstances or ambitions she might have for the future.

So I have no choice but to believe that at least in part, you are indeed alluding to the legal inequalities that men must live with.
 
Removable Mind said:
Until you have a uterus - and live in their life circumstances then that's not a question you, as a man, should be raising.
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I have a heartbeat and all fetus have a heartbeat within the first 3 weeks.

The rule of law is to protect and recognize human rights. Empowering women involves creating a better society and killing babies NEVER empowers a woman's life.
 
Bucky said:
I have a heartbeat and all fetus have a heartbeat within the first 3 weeks.

The rule of law is to protect and recognize human rights. Empowering women involves creating a better society and killing babies NEVER empowers a woman's life.
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So you 100% are pro-fetus - not 100% for women. It would be so much better to stick with your anti-abortion beliefs and arguments.
 
Removable Mind said:
So you 100% are pro-fetus - not 100% for women. It would be so much better to stick with your anti-abortion beliefs and arguments.
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I am awake and listen to science and reason. A fetus is a human and has all the characteristics of a life form that just needs time and nourishment to grow. This is based on science and biology.

To be pro fetus is to be pro life and I choose life. That isn't anti-women, it is pro-human rights.
 
Bucky said:
Can I ask you a question?

Why is that the majority of pro-choice groups refuses to support ANY abortion regulation or restriction?

Tell me a restriction that was supported by groups like PP?
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The same reasons Canada does not have any legislation regarding abortion whatsoever (we also have lower rates of abortion). It is not that we refuse to support any regulation or legislation it is that what has been proposed is restrictive and impedes a woman's right to get an abortion, and there is simply no need for regulation in most cases. It is also a political hot potato many do not want to deal with.
 
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