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Choices [W:1315]

Removable Mind said:
Not just any group of human life. Be clear about that. Those who think it's okay are people like Hitler or Assaud.

How is it possible for an embryo or early stage fetus to be equal to the born?
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How is it not? Both are humans in different stages of life.
 
Josie said:
Like when someone wants an abortion, but the hospital is a Catholic facility where they feel morally and religiously obligated to not perform abortions? How many pro-choicers will stand up for THEIR religious liberty?
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Catholic hospitals do not perform elective abortions in the US.
In fact most will only perform indirect abortions in medical emergencies by removing both the woman's Fallopian tube and the pre embryo or embryo in it during an ectopic pregnancy instead of doing a direct chemical abortion which could save the woman's tube and allow her a greater chance of a normal pregnancy in the future.
 
minnie616 said:
Catholic hospitals do not perform elective abortions in the US.
In fact they will only perform indirect abortions such s removing both the woman's Fallopian tube and the pre embryo or embryo in it during an ectopic pregnancy instead of doing a direct chemical abortion which could save the woman's tube and allow her a greater chance of a normal pregnancy in the future.
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Good to know. Do you support their religious liberty?
 
Josie said:
How is it not? Both are humans in different stages of life.
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That doesn't make sense. Again, how is it possible for a human embryo or early stage human fetus to be equal to an human who is born? "Species types" don't make the various stages of a given species "equal".

So am I now to assume that you're placing me in the Hitler-esque viewpoint type person regarding all stages of human life?
 
Henrin said:
If an owner beats their dog do not call the dog a victim of animal abuse?
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This is the logical fallacy known as a 'false equivalency'. Sorry, but that invalid argument is not very convinging. Do you have something valid to say ??
 
Removable Mind said:
That doesn't make sense. Again, how is it possible for a human embryo or early stage human fetus to be equal to an human who is born? "Species types" don't make the various stages of a given species "equal".

So am I now to assume that you're placing me in the Hitler-esque viewpoint type person regarding all stages of human life?
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It makes perfect sense. It doesn't make sense to you because you think an unborn human is "lesser" simply because of it's age and location. I say all humans are equal no matter their age or location.

If you think a certain group of humans can (and sometimes should) be killed, then you are certainly in the "barbaric" category. :shrug:
 
Josie said:
Good to know. Do you support their religious liberty?
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If they perform life saving abortions when the woman's life is at risk and she or her living will or designated spokesperson requests the life saving abortion.
 
Josie said:
Good to know. Do you support their religious liberty?
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Why difference does it make about what religion one subscribes to since it's common knowledge that women of all religions have abortions? Women of all political affiliations have abortions. Women of all political philosophies have abortions.

What matters is women's freedom to control their reproductive roles, regardless of religions or governments.
 
minnie616 said:
If they perform indirect abortions when the woman's life is at risk.
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What if someone's religious belief is to not perform any abortions at all even when the mother's life is at risk? Do you support that religious liberty?
 
SilverFox said:
Much has been said about "a woman's right to choose". I fully agree that a woman should be fully entitled to decide whether or not to submit to the procedure of childbirth. Where I DISAGREE with untold millions of women is that I believe that it is absolutely IMPERATIVE that a woman exercise that right of choice BEFORE - - not AFTER - - deciding to climb onto a bed and engage in the specific type of activity which she VERY WELL KNOWS might produce the gestation of a new, miniaturized human being. To nonchalantly and cavalierly place an order for the prospective bundle of joy only to cancel the order in barbaric fashion at some future date is heinously and hideously abominable. IMHO


The living, moving, growing child within the womb has no voice with which to plead for his or her chance at life; - - but WHY does that precious, tiny life form have no right to existence?
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IMHO you are mostly correct. Thanks for posting a very intelligent post.
 
RAMOSS said:
This is the logical fallacy known as a 'false equivalency'. Sorry, but that invalid argument is not very convinging. Do you have something valid to say ??
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Why is that? A dog can be a victim and is not a person, right? If that is the case then why can't a fetus be a victim and not a person?
 
Josie said:
It makes perfect sense. It doesn't make sense to you because you think an unborn human is "lesser" simply because of it's age and location. I say all humans are equal no matter their age or location.

If you think a certain group of humans can (and sometimes should) be killed, then you are certainly in the "barbaric" category. :shrug:
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But you can't seem to define or explain why you hold that belief.
 
Removable Mind said:
Why difference does it make about what religion one subscribes to since it's common knowledge that women of all religions have abortions? Women of all political affiliations have abortions. Women of all political philosophies have abortions.
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I didn't say anything to the contrary. Are you making things up again?

Removable Mind said:
What matters is women's freedom to control their reproductive roles, regardless of religions or governments.
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We're discussing religious liberty -- does it go both ways? Does a doctor have the right to refuse to perform an abortion because of his religious beliefs?
 
Scrabaholic said:
For some people, religious liberty only matters when it's *theirs* they feel is being infringed.
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When one is killing other human beings, some human beings know that "religious liberty" is not a relevant concept.

These are also the people who note that you and the ones who liked your post will not defend the concept in any broader sense.
 
Removable Mind said:
But you can't seem to define or explain why you hold that belief.
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I just did. All humans - no matter their age, developmental stage, disability, mental capacity, location - are equal. To say a certain group of humans is "lesser" and can (and sometimes should) be killed is repulsive. What word or words are tripping you up?
 
Josie said:
I didn't say anything to the contrary. Are you making things up again?



We're discussing religious liberty -- does it go both ways? Does a doctor have the right to refuse to perform an abortion because of his religious beliefs?
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But it makes a difference to you if women who have abortions also subscribe or hold a membership with religions that don't have tenets against abortion.
 
Removable Mind said:
But it makes a difference to you if women who have abortions also subscribe or hold a membership with religions that don't have tenets against abortion.
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Why didn't you answer my question....again?
 
Josie said:
What if someone's religious belief is to not perform any abortions at all even when the mother's life is at risk? Do you support that religious liberty?
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You asked about Catholic hospitals , not about individuals. .. do you understand there is a difference between a hospital and an individual ?

An individual at the hospital doesn't need to perform an abortion but as a hospital that gets public funds life saving abortions need to be formed if the woman requests to try to save her life.
 
Henrin said:
Why is that? A dog can be a victim and is not a person, right? If that is the case then why can't a fetus be a victim and not a person?
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RAMOSS, I think it is entirely possible (IMO) that you are wrong, but more to the point, when you start using terms like "false equivalency" it seems to me that you are trying to show how stupid we are. All things being equal, we are just as intelligent than you are. Nice try however.
 
Josie said:
I just did. All humans - no matter their age, developmental stage, disability, mental capacity, location - are equal. To say a certain group of humans are "lesser" and can (and sometimes should) be killed is repulsive. What word or words are tripping you up?
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Your lack of genuinely answering my question is tripping me up. You've just described various human conditions, but that doesn't make them equal. In fact you've noted things that are likely for societies to see them as not equal.
 
minnie616 said:
You asked about Catholic hospitals , not about individuals. .. do you understand there is a difference between a hospital and an individual ?
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Hospitals are full of individual humans who have religious liberty. Are your Constitutional rights suspended while you're at work?
 
Removable Mind said:
Your lack of genuinely answering my question is tripping me up. You've just described various human conditions, but that doesn't make them equal. In fact you've noted things that are likely for societies to see them as not equal.
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I did answer your question, RM. You just dislike the answer.
 
Josie said:
Hospitals are full of individual humans who have religious liberty. Are your Constitutional rights suspended while you're at work?
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The courts have decided the question.
Educate yourself.
 
Removable Mind said:
Your lack of genuinely answering my question is tripping me up. You've just described various human conditions, but that doesn't make them equal. In fact you've noted things that are likely for societies to see them as not equal.
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See earlier comment: this statement of yours in opposition to equality is "repulsive."
 
minnie616 said:
The courts have decided the question.
Educate yourself.
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I'm very educated on the topic, minnie. I was asking your personal opinion. No need for insults just because we disagree on some things.
 
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